If this thread is put up then is there an obligation for the person being called out to go there and do what?

I don't think that's the idea at all

I'm not doing this here right now. We are discussing the creation of a new thread, not my personal experiences with call outs.

I'm asking you to articulate the value you've found in this process. That would be more persuasive to me.

But I will issue one right now. You are privileged in society in many ways so it feels out of bounds for you to push back against a thread dedicated to minority voices and ask one of those minority voices (me, a lesbian) to educate you.

If it's out of bounds for me to even ask questions then I can't see how this proposed thread would function as anything other than a penalty box.

You seem to think that all of these issues are cut and dried, but some of them are more nuanced than that and deserve conversation.

I am not looking to persuade you. You are either committed to being anti-racist/ableist/etc. or you aren't.

It is a lot of difficult emotional work to address your own privilege, and while you can require that in a workplace environment, I don't know if that's the remit of this community.

But I mean... you wouldn't have to go into the thread if you didn't want to, right? And just not having it wouldn't/shouldn't prevent a call-out. And, ultimately, the call-out-ee needs to decide for themselves whether there's merit to the call-out and whether there's something to learn. So, I think the full complement of responses is available -- like, a blip of a couple of posts of "Oh, got it. I'm sorry, thanks for sharing that with me," in an existing thread, or, "Can we take this offline? I'm not comfortable doing this on the board," or, "Oh, it's ON! Meet me in the Throw-Down thread at high noon (uh, Eastern, so 9a your time. Does that work for you?)!" I'm kidding about the last one. Though, if someone wanted to talk more, there'd be a space for it, even if the aggrieved person didn't want to be the specific educator. This makes sense in my head.

But I think no one is obligated to settle something with someone on-board, or in-thread, or at all, really. If someone calls me out, and I genuinely want to discuss further to understand, I think asking to take it to a thread like that would be great, and whoever called me out could come or not, depending on their tolerance for discussion of the topic. And anyone else with an opinion could join in. But I'm not under any obligation to discuss it. A thread to talk about difficult shit, though, I think, is a good idea. I guess I'm not thinking of it as a Throw-Down thread, and I don't expect it to become one.

Yeah, and I agree with Jessica (what else is new?) that maybe this would've helped not lose people to P-C's behavior. I can't speak for them, but would it have helped to have someplace to go and discuss the things he was (not being?) called out for? I mean, I know he was called out on some things, but I had NO idea about the full extent of things. Not that it was anyone's duty to inform me, but I felt awful for not knowing what was happening to community members.

ETA: If you were watching that in real time, it only took me three tries to get the quick-edit right!

I'm not entirely sure what the thread would be used for, in general. Like, just sharing resources like from SURJ or other groups, or are people supposed to volunteer to do education/moderate discussions/etc? I don't think you can just open up a space and have work that is this hard magically happen there without a lot of concerted effort. Maybe people are ready to put in that effort and want to do it here.

I am not 100% sure we need a thread, but I think we need to feel somewhat OK (uncomfortable but OK) talking about either our feelings or thinngs that are happening (like Polter Cow, which I had no idea) openly as a way to make people feel comfortable. However, to what extent does that make others uncomfortable, and that does bother me.

I think it is a weird time, and everyone is on edge, and we can't keep it from seeping in here, even though we are by and large very homogenous.

The incident I am referring to was on/near 9/11 and I honestly have removed it from my mind, but it involved a seeminly rascist comment, a buffista of middle eastern heritage, and losing two long time Buffistas forever. And I personally remember just sort of avoiding the whole thing, and I wished I hadn't. I wish we hadn't lost two buffistas. I don't want to lose buffistas, because we are generally able to be nice to each other.

Again, not sure a separate thread is the right thing, I am pondering it. But if not a thread, what would the answer be. I was really shocked at how contentious things got, really fast, when we don't generally do that here, and want to understand why and how to mitigate it.

I am not looking to persuade you. You are either committed to being anti-racist/ableist/etc. or you aren't.

Well, you need to persuade people that this dedicated thread is the best way to being anti-racist/et al. It's not something you're deciding by executive fiat. The point of this thread is to discuss the merits of the idea. Dismissing my POV because I don't agree with you is a reach.

You keep taking the imperative tone on this, but you're mischaracterizing my stance. It's entirely within bounds to agree in principle and disagree on strategy or implementation.

I was really shocked at how contentious things got, really fast, when we don't generally do that here, and want to understand why and how to mitigate it.

It's a bad time. It's a hard time. We've all been under stress for 9 months, isolated to greater and lesser degrees, and the only thing we can do anything to make things better is almost completely passive.

And it's winter, and it's the holidays, and that just compounds everything.

It breaks my heart that Laura is so upset, but we shouldn't let problems just slide by, and we can't silence or ignore the voices of people who are marginalized in any way.

but we shouldn't let problems just slide by, and we can't silence or ignore the voices of people who are marginalized in any way.

I'm not advocating that. I think handling it in-thread is better than having a thread dedicated to it.

It's a bad time. It's a hard time. We've all been under stress for 9 months, isolated to greater and lesser degrees, and the only thing we can do anything to make things better is almost completely passive.

And it's winter, and it's the holidays, and that just compounds everything.

This is why I suggested taking the conversation elsewhere. For the most part I think conversations like this should be had in the thread of origin, but the Goodbye thread is a holiday kind of thing. For a business, for example, you'd have a meeting, not put it in the holiday newsletter, if that makes sense.

If it's out of bounds for me to even ask questions then I can't see how this proposed thread would function as anything other than a penalty box.

This.

You are either committed to being anti-racist/ableist/etc. or you aren't.

Because even though I am not 100% sure a thread is necessary, that in no way means I'm not committed to those things.