I was really shocked at how contentious things got, really fast, when we don't generally do that here, and want to understand why and how to mitigate it.

It's a bad time. It's a hard time. We've all been under stress for 9 months, isolated to greater and lesser degrees, and the only thing we can do anything to make things better is almost completely passive.

And it's winter, and it's the holidays, and that just compounds everything.

It breaks my heart that Laura is so upset, but we shouldn't let problems just slide by, and we can't silence or ignore the voices of people who are marginalized in any way.

but we shouldn't let problems just slide by, and we can't silence or ignore the voices of people who are marginalized in any way.

I'm not advocating that. I think handling it in-thread is better than having a thread dedicated to it.

It's a bad time. It's a hard time. We've all been under stress for 9 months, isolated to greater and lesser degrees, and the only thing we can do anything to make things better is almost completely passive.

And it's winter, and it's the holidays, and that just compounds everything.

This is why I suggested taking the conversation elsewhere. For the most part I think conversations like this should be had in the thread of origin, but the Goodbye thread is a holiday kind of thing. For a business, for example, you'd have a meeting, not put it in the holiday newsletter, if that makes sense.

If it's out of bounds for me to even ask questions then I can't see how this proposed thread would function as anything other than a penalty box.

This.

You are either committed to being anti-racist/ableist/etc. or you aren't.

Because even though I am not 100% sure a thread is necessary, that in no way means I'm not committed to those things.

Even having to vote on a thread for your own and other minority groups rights in a community you are a part of feels like a slap, I have to say. I know this is the Buffista way but it is very reminiscent of Supreme Court ruling over your marriage, or businesses getting to decide whether they'll be wheelchair accessible or not. The majority telling the minority to "prove it." It feels fucking awful. If you're not a part of a minority group, please keep that in mind when you comment here. I hope it's worth getting the last word or asserting your dominance to make already oppressed people feel unwelcome and question whether your friends are truly your friends.

I, personally, feel very out of practice with dealing with any kind of conflict. In part because I am physically isolated so it's pretty easy to avoid conflict with the people I do interact with. But I don't want to sit idly by while our community or anyone in it is hurt.

I feel like having a thread like Glam has proposed might help me feel like I have some kind of a straw to cling to in a similar situation in the future. Just having the dedicated space, as it were.

One of my earliest memories of posting here is actually having to apologize for something that I didn't mean the way it was taken. I don't remember what the something was, to be honest, I just remember the feelings behind the apology. And it was uncomfortable for me, but also one of the core things that made me ultimately feel at home here - that it matters how we treat each other, what we say to one another. Y'all are important to me

It's a bad time. It's a hard time. We've all been under stress for 9 months, isolated to greater and lesser degrees, and the only thing we can do anything to make things better is almost completely passive.

And it's winter, and it's the holidays, and that just compounds everything.

It breaks my heart that Laura is so upset, but we shouldn't let problems just slide by, and we can't silence or ignore the voices of people who are marginalized in any way.

Dana, you said what I was thinking better than I did. I think in this discussion, which might become a little strained, we do need to assume positive intent on the part of all Buffistas. We have known each other so long, and we know that we aren't, in general, terrible people (or we would know it by now!).

I mean, I'm sorry that I got excited about a space to share what is hurtful to the LGBTQIA+ community with folks and to learn from other minorities. I have been doing this work for years (workshops, conferences, classes, etc.) and yes, I do know a lot, but no I am in no way an expert. That said, I will always speak up. Sorry not sorry.

we do need to assume positive intent on the part of all Buffistas

In the most recent case, that was done but it was Too Much for those who were gently told.

I hope it's worth getting the last word or asserting your dominance to make already oppressed people feel unwelcome and question whether your friends are truly your friends.

This is a voting discussion. I think, as Buffistas are wont to do, people are ... you know, discussing. I'm not sure that's something to be angry about. We've always done that, as you pointed out.

If you're not a part of a minority group, please keep that in mind when you comment here.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I though the whole point was for everyone to feel welcome coming here to learn. To do that, we all need to have the option to comment, right?

No, it wasn't a discussion in some areas and what I'm saying is even having this discussion with folks who are not in minority groups saying, "Well, I don't know..." is damaging to those that are. Again, it's the majority deciding for the minority.

Minorities: I think it would be useful to have this thread to talk about issues.
Non-minorities: I feel censored. I feel like I'd be attacked. Prove that we need it.