There were a lot of comments that pinged or set off red flags for people. But maybe none so egregious in itself to warrant more than in-thread censure (as Karl did).

Certainly you start to see more of a pattern over time and that's where the toxic nature is more visible.

That's a separate consideration from the event Jessica describes which is itself ban-worthy.

I'm glad that that we've decided to vote on it. I just think it's better for the community to make that decision, and we worked hard to build those structures in place. I just prefer that it is a deliberate act and I feel like people coming forward here and discussing it is healthier.

If, as Liese notes, there was a more immediate need for the stompies to intervene (if Sunil were still posting here) then the stompies could act as they are empowered to do.

But I prefer working through it as a community and then making a collective decision.

Sunil's apology seemed sincere

Yeah, they all do. He's good at apologies.

Nobody has to beat themselves up for being blind here - it takes a certain amount of charm to be a successful creep, and we wouldn't be a loving family of internet weirdos if we didn't instinctively sympathize with self-deprecating social awkwardness.

I agree regarding the procedure and the process so far.

And, I echo what Sail said:

I have to very belatedly thank Karl and Matt for calling out Sunil's behavior, because it shows me how insidious internalized misogyny is.

My response at the time could, and should, have been much stronger. My reaction to the behavior certainly was. I didn't want to kick up a fuss and that was wrong.

I've been mostly away due to a totally separate set of hurt feelings and I have to say, coming back to this thoughtful discussion has been kind of healing for me. It seems dumb to say 'I wish it was under different circumstances because...of course. Still, it is so good to see the community working.

Reminds me of those movies where the family comes back to deal with a death or illness and everyone ends up pulling together with their differing strengths.

Nobody has to beat themselves up for being blind here - it takes a certain amount of charm to be a successful creep, and we wouldn't be a loving family of internet weirdos if we didn't instinctively sympathize with self-deprecating social awkwardness.

I appreciate everyone who's said this, but I'm still angry with myself (with him too, obviously), and that's going to take a while to settle. I don't process stuff very quickly. Or even at a moderate pace.

I appreciate everyone who's said this, but I'm still angry with myself (with him too, obviously), and that's going to take a while to settle. I don't process stuff very quickly. Or even at a moderate pace.

Same! It's like we're brain twins today, I guess. And, you know, I have no real creepdar if I'm not being creeped on and occasionally if I'm being creeped on unless it's really intrusive. So I feel bad about that.

Also, in Other Online Spaces people are being WRONG ON THE INTERNET about this in ways that I was and I see other people clearly from here weighing in so, you know, thanks, whichever Nonnie you are on meme.

Both here and in some other spaces I've seen them in the past couple of days, his apologies are like a master class in hitting every single "How to sincerely apologize 101" trope without an ounce of actual sincerity. They are so carefully crafted to not be a nonpology of the type that gets called out. I'm finding them creepy as hell.

I'm still catching up after being mostly offline this weekend.

I do not wish to see him here ever again. For those that were driven away--I'm sorry I didn't ping to what he was doing, and I hope you'll make your way back at some point.

I'll be voting to make sure we make the quorum. I'm also OK with not passing go, and going straight to a ban.

Nobody has to beat themselves up for being blind here - it takes a certain amount of charm to be a successful creep, and we wouldn't be a loving family of internet weirdos if we didn't instinctively sympathize with self-deprecating social awkwardness.

I'm still processing that what was obvious to quite a few of our group (in particular the men), was really a complete surprise to me. For me that means examining the way I justify and excuse behavior where maybe I should pay more attention.

Bureaucratic note: Our rules call for four days of discussion followed by three days of voting. So voting would start Wednesday evening and go through Saturday evening.

Also, we'll need a vote counter. I think Nilly's done it the past few times, but I'm happy to take on that task if she's not around.

Thanks for the clarification, Jon. I couldn't remember.

I think we've had a couple of volunteers to vote-count, but will we have an admin available to set up the poll?