I think DebetEsse is right about the timing of the joke, Laura. If the conversation had only been about how horrible Orange Julius is, I don't think your joke would have pinged. It pinged because of the timing, sequence, and substance of the posts that came immediately before it.

sj spent some courage to politely bring her concern to KB. To have your joke follow so quickly felt like you were undermining sj, even though I can't imagine you would consciously do that to anyone.

Did you see the recent photos of Trump at the small desk? One of the things making the rounds are those pictures, which people have marked up to "prove" Trump wears adult diapers [link] , as well as a video from an Apprentice vet who swears he's worn them for years: [link] . There is also a golf course photo of him, where his white pants are dirty around the center seam of the seat of his pants. [link]

In other words, in the current national conversation, the "diaper" nickname goes way further than Trump acting like a baby. Regardless of whether they're true or just snark, the "Diaper Don" memes are ableist.

Laura and Katerina Bee, I well know you weren't trying to hurt or offend anyone. Everyone who has ever read posts from either of you knows that.

While you were both setting out the guac, you didn't fall into it, but you accidentally dipped a thumb in the bowl. You didn't mean to, and nobody thinks you meant to. It just happened. Your friends are telling you to wipe the guac off your thumbs. That's all.

It's never comfortable to be called out on something. Given how long we've all known each other, even without talking to them, I'm confident it was also uncomfortable for sj, Debet, and Dana to say anything and they did so, because they respect you both. They know you to be people who wouldn't intentionally play into ableism. Please know the same is true for me.

We are all stressed out, and yes I have feelings just like everyone else in this world.

You're right about the stress. And I know you're feeling unfairly maligned in your personal life right now, so maybe you're currently a bit more easily bruised. Please know they said something because they love and respect you, not because they don't. They would also tell you that you had spinach in your teeth, not to be mean to you, but so that you could take the spinach out of your teeth.

I originally drafted a long personal story about my kid and his experience during the worst (so far) year of his disability. I opted not to include it because it was so long, and because it's his story to tell, not mine.

I'm only referencing it at all, because I know if we were in a face-to-face situation, you (Laura and KB) would both go to the mat for this kid. Because I know you both (on here), I did not take offense at the diaper-baby posts. Because I love him more than life, I did wince on his behalf, and I had to tell myself you don't know his story and would never hurt me or him.

I wish those sort of Trump insults would go away. They won't disappear from social media, but we ought not play into the diaper stuff here. We're Buffistas, and that means a thing.

And my word, I loathe Donald Trump. He's my pit guy (HIMYM reference, see "Pit Person" here: [link] ). I've stepped in the ableism guac myself, elsewhere, sharing tweets about Trump's gait (particularly on that ramp at the West Point graduation). It's embarrassing, but I'm glad I know not to do it, now.

Thank you, Cindy. As usual you are more eloquent than I could ever hope to be. So, I will second everything you just said, and you are correct that if I didn’t love and respect KB and Laura, I wouldn’t have bothered to say anything at all.

And since Cindy mentioned a few of the ableist internet memes about Trump that are also hurtful, I will add that ones about using two hands to hold a glass and needing to use a railing or needing help on ramps and stairs also fall into this category.

I'm just thankful that The Vile One has been given the boot. I'm really hoping we'll have a push to return to civility in the new year.

I'm also thankful to have started inching my way back into this community again. I have missed you all!

I have missed you all!

It's very nice to see your pixels, Anne!

My 5-year-old calls him Donald Dump Truck. After I stopped laughing, I tried to explain that we really shouldn't call people names, but it was probably one of my less convincing explanations. (We don't talk politics around them much, but they definitely know that we Do Not Like Him.)

Post Deleted!

I've deleted my previous posts since apparently people don't get that if I call Trump a baby I mean his behavior. I rarely do Twitter so didn't even know about the people there discussing diaperdon as incontinence. Yes, I agree that would be inappropriate, although I hadn't seen it. I don't really think I should be either grouped with these people, or blamed for their behavior. Also, I find all of it inappropriate to the spirit of the thread.

Personally, this is my safe no conflict zone, so I need to take a social media break for a while. I have enough stress in my life and don't need any more. Not stomping off, but really need to take a break.

Separate post:

My year started off with being told to STFU by various elements of the Intelligence Community because I was looking at proxy data that indicated the covid situation in China was MUCH WORSE than they were reporting. Other elements picked it up and did the right thing, but still.

I went to Houston to run a weeklong workshop with innovators at Johnson Space Center to help with Orion, Gateway, and Artemis. It was amazing and a Life Moment. I am normally draconian about 100% attendance because we cram so much stuff in, but "I have to miss Weds morning because I have to be in Mission Control for the first all-female spacewalk" will, in fact, get a pass from me. I hadn't planned to do anything except the workshop, but the awesome NASA people gave me tours of the full-size practice vehicles (including the ISS) and Mission Control.

My son's school shut down and went to online-only. He'd been self-sabotaging (not turning in work) so he had 2 Fs locked in. This meant no chance for college.

Then the USG agency I worked at bucked the administration and sent everyone home. I was the second-to-last person out of my building doing the "elegant shutdown;" the person who left before me wrote CROATOAN on the whiteboard on his way out.

The problem was that my contract didn't allow me to bill from anywhere but that location, so I was suddenly unemployed.

On the good side, my husband still has his pension and we have savings and were able to massively restrict our spending. On the bad side, we would not be able to afford to stay in our house or Northern VA. On the good side, we spent a month working out and working on the house to get it ready to sell. On the bad side, no one was going to buy. On the good side, I no longer worked for the organization that had a policy of cyber-stalking all my online activity (this is why I changed my user name here, then left). Another good was that I was offered a job to work with Congress on climate change. On the bad side it required me to treat Trump as a legitimate American leader. On the good side, I got a job offer a month later. On the bad side it was from the organization that had told me to STFU earlier in the year.

And it was to work with a truly toxic Mean Girl. I decided I could manage her, but I asked for an additional $30K (I have a salary/bullshit index I use for work). They actually agreed.

That job sucked. I gained 20 lbs and lost control of my depression and my blood pressure. Toxic Woman kept sabotaging everything. All my best friends save one had left to go to other jobs. Other friends were being fired or having to resign from high positions in the administration. However, the community I'd been working to build was doing great things, and our diversity and inclusion was getting really good, including blind and deaf people. For instance, a translation technology we've been working on for years to translate ASL to English text and speech and vice versa became a working prototype.

But then I tried to get my new office's HR team to look at why innovators, employees with ability mismatches, and LGBTQ+ employees were leaving in higher ratios than others. And they fired me.

All throughout this year, my son worked hard to overcome his grades and has had success. The school erased the grades from last spring so the Fs went away...but online school has been so bad psychologically and pedagogically that he probably doesn't have a chance of college even with perfect completion of homework and a full plate of AP and Honors. Whenever I think about it I get furious that my son's future is being destroyed because some adults won't follow science and safety and others think their wealth at age 80 is more important.

Our financial work during my first unemployment this year was sufficient so that this one wasn't a big problem, other than I'm righteously indignant, so that's a good.

My sister's cancer, which was Stage 4 lung cancer (one tumor was the size of a softball) when detected, is fully gone (yay immunotherapy), but she lives in NM, which is the poster child for rampaging covid right now.

Biden/Harris won but McConnell still runs DC.

In short, mixed bag.

I will be taking a break from here as well. This is also my safe space, but I do not currently feel safe here. If I cannot bring up something that genuinely hurts me, than this is not the place for me at the moment. I have enough stress at the moment as well.

I do apologize that this has taken up so much space in this particular thread.

Also, I find all of it inappropriate to the spirit of the thread.

I'm hitting this first, because I completely agree with you on this, but I want to respond and don't want to burden another thread with it. There is no place else to put it.

I rarely do Twitter so didn't even know about the people there discussing diaperdon as incontinence. Yes, I agree that would be inappropriate, although I hadn't seen it. I don't really think I should be either grouped with these people, or blamed for their behavior.

Not one of us grouped you or Katerina Bee with those people. I hope you go back at look at how polite and gentle everyone tried to be with you. I feel you've lost sight of that in the heat of the moment, but it's all there.

I provided "Diaper Don" context to you because I figured there was no way in hell either of you could have been familiar with it and still have proceeded to either bring it here (KB), or joke-away sj's objection to it being brought here (Laura).

To be blunt, I was giving you a second bite at the apology apple, because I thought you both got flustered and botched the first one. KB turned the first bite into, "Consider me schooled," and you turned into something that ended along the lines of: "I am a person with feelings too."

I know you are hurt, and I am sorry you are hurt.

I am disappointed, because this conversation feels like sj said, "Hey, you're stepping on my foot," and your response was, "I'm upset you told me I'm stepping on your foot."

I will let sj speak for herself if she so chooses, but I want you to think about the sj you have known here for 15 years (or more?). Like you, she does not get involved in this stuff.

Personally, this is my safe no conflict zone, so I need to take a social media break for a while. I have enough stress in my life and don't need any more. Not stomping off, but really need to take a break.

I think this is everyone's safe space. You're about the kindest, least confrontational Buffista we have, Laura. It's just that sj is, too. It must have taken a lot for her to speak up. I feel her no-conflict zone was violated, when her objections were brushed aside instead of listened to.