Jayne: You wanna go, little man? Wash: Only if it's someplace with candlelight.

'Objects In Space'


Natter 76: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Foaminess  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, butt kicking, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Laura - Mar 16, 2019 6:48:24 am PDT #6043 of 30019
Our wings are not tired.

I have a bunch of stuff on my list today. Right now I am about to head out to wake my son who isn't responding to phone calls. Part of what I have to do is putting blades back on a fan that was disassembled months ago when a ceiling was painted. Son is 6'6" so it seems like I shouldn't have to drag a ladder in there to do it myself when he can just reach up and do it. Also I need to go places and don't want to leave the dog alone and need him to dog sit. Maybe he can get her to eat. I have had no luck at all. Vet appt is Monday morning but I don't know if she is going to make it that long. And DH is gone to basketball stuff until late afternoon! Feeling overwhelmed and frustrated.


Pix - Mar 16, 2019 7:04:20 am PDT #6044 of 30019
The status is NOT quo.

Was this on Facebook, Pix? Because we could send an army over to take him to task.
It was, yes, but on his feed, so not open to people he hasn't friended. I also think he is the kind of person who won't listen until someone he knows calls him on it.


Pix - Mar 16, 2019 7:39:14 am PDT #6045 of 30019
The status is NOT quo.

This was my final response to him this morning:

I have slept on this, and I feel I need to leave a final comment. When I commented initially, I did not do so to "talk down" to you, but rather to share an insight gained from years and years of study and education. Referring to my "enlarged sense of intelligence" is a dismissal of actual education and experience and a refusal to consider another point of view, which took me off guard. I apologize for my phrasing led you to think I was being condescending; that was not my intent. However, your response, which attacked and dismissed me as person, was uncalled for. You say that I don't know you, and that is true, but you also don't know me. I never claimed to be a national expert, but I do actually have a real textual and experiential foundation for my comments; my work in this field is substantial and sustained, not a hobby. You certainly don't have to agree with me, but I thought it was worth sharing two of the books — written by actual experts in the field — that helped inform my own understanding of these concepts.

I wasn't making judgments about you; in fact, I believe that is at the heart of so many difficult conversations about race. Robin Diangelo, the author of White Fragility, writes, "One of the greatest social fears for a white person is being told that something that we have said or done is racially problematic. Yet when someone lets us know that we have just done such a thing, rather than respond with gratitude and relief (after all, now that we are informed, we won't do it again), we often respond with anger and denial."

I know that that was certainly my default for many years. I am a flawed person; I don't always say things exactly correctly, and I often have to apologize for my phrasing or my blind spots in many conversations. I'm trying more, though, to take the note when I get them — to say, okay, thanks for the perspective. In this case, I think saying racism is the same regardless of the group in power is problematic, and that's why I responded. Again, I'm sorry you thought I was trying to talk down to you — I was actually just saying, "Hey, here's something else to consider." I wish you had received it that way rather than feeling personally attacked and then attacking me back, even if you ultimately disagree.

I care a lot about the people in my life. I do my best to engage in real conversations and civil discourse, and I always work to preserve my relationships. When you first posted, I considered responding about my own experiences as someone who was raised Christian and eventually left the church. I agree that sometimes people are callous about those who are religious, and that is something I have discussed in my classroom as well as in my life. When someone is dismissive of people with religious beliefs, I speak up in their defense, much as I tried to do here about a different group of people. I also am very aware that Christianity is still the dominant religion in the United States, and some Christians have perpetuated horrible inequities in our society. I was fortunate to be raised in a church and by a mother who aligned with the kindness and love aspect of Christ rather than a judgmental God seeking to cast sinners to hell, but seeing the influence some branches of Christianity have had in our country is painful and cause for a lot of introspection, I think, both for individuals and branches of the church.

If I didn't know you in real life and consider your wife a friend, I would have walked away from this conversation entirely, but I'm likely to see you in person at some point again, and that made it important for me to say something before I disengaged. I wish you well and hope we can move forward from this point.


Laura - Mar 16, 2019 7:50:31 am PDT #6046 of 30019
Our wings are not tired.

Good luck, Pix. It's good that you got it out of your system. I wish I saw more evidence of closed minded people being open to learning and growing, but I don't see it very often.


Pix - Mar 16, 2019 7:55:39 am PDT #6047 of 30019
The status is NOT quo.

I doubt he will change his mind, but at least I said something. I will unfriend him after that.


Laura - Mar 16, 2019 8:01:55 am PDT #6048 of 30019
Our wings are not tired.

Wise advice given to me in my youth was that we have an obligation to ourselves to express our thoughts and opinions, with the understanding that other adults get to make their own decisions and have their own opinions. No Matter How Wrong They Are! It's frustrating, but a whole lot more stressful to just bite the tongue and not make an effort to inform.

It is no fun at all when you are called out on your own prejudices or inappropriate behavior, and it takes a lot to recognize and learn from this. Much of my life I was super defensive and I recognize and fight that when I see it happening.


Pix - Mar 16, 2019 8:03:48 am PDT #6049 of 30019
The status is NOT quo.

Exactly. I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't care about his wife, but I've said what I need to say now, I think, so all I can do is ignore him when I see him in person.


Dana - Mar 16, 2019 8:04:01 am PDT #6050 of 30019
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

And there's the neighbor's stereo system again.

Trying to figure out what's a reasonable expectation. I don't really want to hear it all day, but can we only complain when it's early morning or late night?


Laura - Mar 16, 2019 8:04:28 am PDT #6051 of 30019
Our wings are not tired.

Ha, he'll probably be avoiding you too so it will work out!


Laura - Mar 16, 2019 8:06:48 am PDT #6052 of 30019
Our wings are not tired.

Dana, they at least have to know that you can hear it. I hear my neighbor's sound system, but it isn't really loud and it has never been very early or late. Do you run into them outside ever where you can mention that you do hear it? "Hey, I hear you have a new sound setup!"