Willow: That's a work ethic! Buffy, you're developing a work ethic! Buffy: Do they make an ointment for that?

'Beneath You'


Natter 71: Someone is wrong on the Internet  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Kate P. - Nov 09, 2012 5:48:18 pm PST #212 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I don't think I'm particularly single-issue, but my views on a bunch of issues tend to line up with the Democrats: pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-helping people who are struggling, pro-raising my taxes to pay for better schools, etc. I believe in the public good, and I believe that those who can pay a little more to support things like schools and libraries should do so. In 2008 I voted for Obama in the primary, though it was a tough call between him and Hillary. In the end, Obama won my vote mostly because he had voted against going to war in Iraq and Hillary had not.

But certainly the fact of his race had something to do with my vote for him as well. I was, and am, very proud to have played my tiny part in electing a black man to the White House, for a whole host of reasons. We are an amazingly, wonderfully diverse country, and it's one of our greatest strengths, so I'm very glad to see the presidency begin to reflect that diversity. Obama, with his ties to places like Kenya and Indonesia, also seemed like a desperately needed corrective to the American isolationism of the Bush years, and I believe his election went a long way towards rehabilitating many people's view of America around the world. He is also an incredible role model here at home for young black kids -- and, I would hope, for kids of all races and backgrounds.

Also, as Kat said, I believe he is a genuinely thoughtful person, which I value hugely in someone making the kinds of decisions he has to make every day. I trust him to give each matter serious thought and to seek out as much information as he can. He may still make decisions I disagree with, but I feel reasonably sure they won't be due to stupidity or an inability to understand their nuances or consequences.


Kat - Nov 09, 2012 5:51:44 pm PST #213 of 30001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

I wonder how much Obama's team learned from GWB's campaigns (and how little Romney's team or McCain's team did). I'm shocked at how close both of those elections were, even with the electoral votes (+4 in 2000 ~+30 in 2004). I don't know how Republicans perceive GWB, but do they think he was successful president with a clear mandate? Because those seem like shockingly close electoral races. Esp. given that most people win with at least 200 EVs more than their opponent.


meara - Nov 09, 2012 5:52:37 pm PST #214 of 30001

Well, Kat, I can't quite imagine a pro-gay anti-choice republican who also got me on other issues...but like I said, sometimes it's lesser or two evils. I was shocked at how many votes Jesse Jackson got, even though he's been gone for months in treatment and being all secretive! But then I figured some people just wouldn't vote for a republican even if the opponent was awful.

I think MAYBE if there were a pro gay anti choice but pro birth control and other stuff person...but probably not. Most of my values are to the left of most Democrats these days, I think. Go socialism. (Ok, not really. But universal healthcare and subsidized daycare and better education? Yeah...)


msbelle - Nov 09, 2012 5:53:18 pm PST #215 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

the pro-life women I know are almost all, I think, anti-sex out of marriage. I clearly do not engage in the discussions with them much, but that is a chunk of it.


Consuela - Nov 09, 2012 5:53:22 pm PST #216 of 30001
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

How in the world did she know to turn up at the poll if she hadn't watched TV, read a newspaper, or talked to anyone in the past year?

I have no idea! She really didn't like the length of the CA ballot and asked if she had to read through all the propositions. (Good thing she doesn't live in Florida!)

Also, as Kat said, I believe he is a genuinely thoughtful person,

Yes, me too. I don't like everything he's chosen to do (drone war! transparency failure! Matthew wassname from Wikileaks! too much use of executive privilege! TSA expansion & security theater! Etc.) But I trust him to make decisions based on facts, and what would in his judgment be best for the most people, and to care about the effects not just on Americans but also around the world.

I admit that I'm really quite interested in his post-Presidential career. He'll only be 55 when he leaves office, and he could do an enormous amount of good work internationally. (Sec-Gen of the UN? Who knows!)


Dana - Nov 09, 2012 5:58:31 pm PST #217 of 30001
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

Husband is visiting his father, and his father is very disgruntled about the election. But when pushed on specifics, he can't back them up with facts. Basically, I avoided saying to my husband that his father is a little bit racist and a whole lot classist. Bonus points for me.

But it's upsetting, because his parents are very educated people, with a very wide experience of the world.


meara - Nov 09, 2012 6:03:49 pm PST #218 of 30001

Well, yesterday when I was in Bakersfield, tr woman I was working with was talking about working with a patient on Wednesday and not asking her something and said "because she was very upset, of course"...an it took me a second to understand the "of course" meant that her candidate didn't win. Oh...I'm so used to my democrat and gay bubbles that I forget that sometimes people see well-employed white woman and think I'd agree with them on shit.


Kate P. - Nov 09, 2012 6:04:22 pm PST #219 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

the pro-life women I know are almost all, I think, anti-sex out of marriage. I clearly do not engage in the discussions with them much, but that is a chunk of it.

Yeah, that's a pretty big disconnect. What still shocks me is how many people who are anti-abortion are also anti-birth control and even anti-sex education. I mean, I shouldn't be shocked; clearly to many people, (1) birth control and abortion are almost the same thing, and (2) only those sluts who have sex without being married would need either, and they don't deserve to have them. But, you know, in REALITY, an excellent way to avoid people having abortions is to educate them about sex and give them access to birth control!


Matt the Bruins fan - Nov 09, 2012 6:21:23 pm PST #220 of 30001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I think the anti-sex education thing is the one I scratch my head at most. Because clearly, if no one ever teaches kids about sex, they'll never be curious enough to experiment with it on their own, right?


Glamcookie - Nov 09, 2012 6:23:21 pm PST #221 of 30001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I'm single issue if a candidate is vocal about trying to relegate me to second class citizen status, but otherwise tend to vote for whomever I think will do the best job for the most people.

Pretty much. Still, I align with the Dems on pretty much every other issue as well, so that worked out.