If average Americans take vacations there, I don't think it's considered Third World (trademarked, copyrighted, Angelina Jolie goes there and poses with adorable children for the U.N.).

Uh, I'm sorry we didn't manage to do the correct pantomime of misery? I'm not sure what to say to that other than clearly our tourist board is pretty good, and I guess you guys don't get what the third world is.

Connie, seriously? That's your definition? That's what you're challenging my definition of my home on? Normal Americans don't go there? I don't think the World Bank uses travel agents as consultants, but that could be a thing.

People vacationed in Haiti, right? I don't think there's a question Haiti is third world as popularly defined now, although aurelia's link seems to say it was originally a much more political distinction than an economic one.

I've been through Jamaica outside of the resorts, and it's third world. Just because a huge company can build a multimillion dollar resort on the beach doesn't mean there isn't a huge amount of poverty just outside the walled garden of that resort.

I see it as "third world" being folks struggling to make ends meet in various levels, ranging from being pretty damned appalling that people in the 21st century allow to persist, to life is tough but we're coping, thank you, though the occasional hand is appreciated. Third World, as used in political and social commentaries et al., has become as much a brand as anything. Useful shorthand. Too often a phrase you can use when you don't want to spend the brain space to actually realize there are people involved.

I see it as "third world" being folks struggling to make ends meet in various levels, ranging from being pretty damned appalling that people in the 21st century allow to persist, to life is tough but we're coping, thank you, though the occasional hand is appreciated.

I've seen that in almost every Caribbean port I've been to while working on cruise ships.

So you have been to Jamaica after all, Connie?

I mentioned to some of the people here that people were saying we weren't 3rd world, and the response was "they're joking, though?" I mentioned the vacation thing, and the response was "that's the definition of 3rd world!"

There really isn't any question about endemic poverty. It's not up for debate.

I doubt there's a 3rd world country without rich people, or without a middle class. It's what the middle class takes for granted, and the gap between them and the lower class, never mind the size of the latter.

I tried asking my parents whether Jamaica was a third world country, without giving them the context of this conversation, to see what they'd say. My dad thought about it for a minute and then nodded and said, "Yeah, I guess so." My mother said, "two and a half."

I go back to wondering what a second world country is. These days.