I've been through Jamaica outside of the resorts, and it's third world. Just because a huge company can build a multimillion dollar resort on the beach doesn't mean there isn't a huge amount of poverty just outside the walled garden of that resort.

I see it as "third world" being folks struggling to make ends meet in various levels, ranging from being pretty damned appalling that people in the 21st century allow to persist, to life is tough but we're coping, thank you, though the occasional hand is appreciated. Third World, as used in political and social commentaries et al., has become as much a brand as anything. Useful shorthand. Too often a phrase you can use when you don't want to spend the brain space to actually realize there are people involved.

I see it as "third world" being folks struggling to make ends meet in various levels, ranging from being pretty damned appalling that people in the 21st century allow to persist, to life is tough but we're coping, thank you, though the occasional hand is appreciated.

I've seen that in almost every Caribbean port I've been to while working on cruise ships.

So you have been to Jamaica after all, Connie?

I mentioned to some of the people here that people were saying we weren't 3rd world, and the response was "they're joking, though?" I mentioned the vacation thing, and the response was "that's the definition of 3rd world!"

There really isn't any question about endemic poverty. It's not up for debate.

I doubt there's a 3rd world country without rich people, or without a middle class. It's what the middle class takes for granted, and the gap between them and the lower class, never mind the size of the latter.

I tried asking my parents whether Jamaica was a third world country, without giving them the context of this conversation, to see what they'd say. My dad thought about it for a minute and then nodded and said, "Yeah, I guess so." My mother said, "two and a half."

I go back to wondering what a second world country is. These days.

Tom - I'm not sure. I think it's still far away like 2017. However, the health care exchange is supposed to kick in by 2014. I don't know if that's just part of the AHCA.

I know there is opposition to it but I don't think the opposition is going to be able to stop it. The biggest arguments against have been - it will cost small business too much money and people will move to VT just for health care and overload the system.

There maybe a few people who live in a bordering state that might make the move but I doubt there's going there's going to be a huge influx of people. The living expenses are high (especially housing), it's really rural and jobs are hard to find, even though the unemployment rate is lower than the national average.

Oh, and now that I've mentioned Jamaica, my father is answering every question addressed to him with, "We be jammin', mon." I also asked them if they've ever been to Jamaica, and my mother said, "Of course we have," but then thought about it and realized that they've been to a whole bunch of other islands, but never Jamaica.

I think by any reasonable definition Jamaica is third world. (The political definition fell by the wayside even before the fall of the SU.) But people's stereotypes are different from reality. So Jamaica is third world, but its public stereotype is not - possibly in part due to the success of Jamaica's tourist board. And not being in a civil war. And all sorts of silly stuff like Angelina Jolie not adapting an adorable baby from there. People who base not thinking Jamaica is third world on that are wrong, but that is where it comes from.

Well, at one point China would have been considered second or third world. But now? How would you classify it?