If JZ decides to reject the heretics currently pretending to be the Catholic church and is called upon to become Pope of the real Catholic Church, I totally vote she take the name of Pope Joan II.

X-ost - Msbelle that is awful though I'm glad you had the talk.

I dunno, I like Pope Jacqueline. It's got that Avignon second Vatican lilt to it. I mea, if you're gonna schism, make up your own rules about pope names, too.

Aww, RIP Barnabas Collins.

I can't tell if that's bitterly ironic or just the cycle of life, cultural studies version. But it seems sad.

And msbelle, sorry to hear mac making those sorts of threats. Sounds like you did the right thing. I feel for mac, he has such big emotions.

JZ - The MCC I attended a few times in NYC was very similar to Catholic mass in order or worship and such. schism to a new MCC branch in SF.

Ah, mac. What Burrell said.

I dunno, I like Pope Jacqueline. It's got that Avignon second Vatican lilt to it. I mea, if you're gonna schism, make up your own rules about pope names, too.

Oh yeah, JZ's own name is extremely cool. But Pope Joan II has major mythological echoes.

There's a very crunchy-dancy-wild Episcopal church in Potrero Hill (Jilli's Stunt Husband even dragged his pagan self there a few times when he was dating a churchy San Franciscan and kind of loved it), and I'm pretty sure there are MCCs here as well. And, of course, there's the woman-led Catholic congregation that meets in an Episcopal church once a month in the shadow of the cathedral, to which I know at least one couple in my parish also belongs.

I don't know, I don't know. I want to talk to the other parish council members here. The big Church sucks in many ways, but my own parish? I love it, and I know enough of the people who are running it to be pretty certain that it's not in imminent danger of collapsing or veering hard-right.

eta: No Papacy for me. Too much work! I can barely stay on top of my current to-do list.

So as long as your own Parish remains progressive, it in no way contributes to the power of the right wing institutional church? I know nothing about the mechanics of the Catholic church, so am honestly asking. When the a right wind Bishop goes to tell a politician how to vote, you are not counted among the number of Catholics he represents? No money put in the collection plate at your local church ends up in the hands of the upper hierarchy?

[On Edit: decided not to correct the typo about "right wind Bishop". ]

So as long as your own Parish remains progressive, it in no way contributes to the power of the right wing institutional church? I know nothing about the mechanics of the Catholic church, so am honestly asking.

I think it's a lot to ask people who have spent all their lives (or at least many years) in one church community to prioritize politics over that sense of community, particularly when their own church experience is not the one doing the damage.

My sister's been attending the same church for twenty-five years and, like JZ, she's getting a lot from the community. And that parish isn't at this point being all right-wing and authoritarian, nor has it had any child-abuse scandal. So the problems with the Church as a whole, while she's aware of them, are not affecting her religious experience.

It's like expecting someone to leave the family because Dad is racist. Well, yeah, but he's Dad. You can argue with him and challenge him, but he's still family, and if you can't change him, are you going to walk out and not come back? That's a really personal thing, and I don't think it's my business to inquire into someone else's decisions on that.