There's a very crunchy-dancy-wild Episcopal church in Potrero Hill (Jilli's Stunt Husband even dragged his pagan self there a few times when he was dating a churchy San Franciscan and kind of loved it), and I'm pretty sure there are MCCs here as well. And, of course, there's the woman-led Catholic congregation that meets in an Episcopal church once a month in the shadow of the cathedral, to which I know at least one couple in my parish also belongs.

I don't know, I don't know. I want to talk to the other parish council members here. The big Church sucks in many ways, but my own parish? I love it, and I know enough of the people who are running it to be pretty certain that it's not in imminent danger of collapsing or veering hard-right.

eta: No Papacy for me. Too much work! I can barely stay on top of my current to-do list.

So as long as your own Parish remains progressive, it in no way contributes to the power of the right wing institutional church? I know nothing about the mechanics of the Catholic church, so am honestly asking. When the a right wind Bishop goes to tell a politician how to vote, you are not counted among the number of Catholics he represents? No money put in the collection plate at your local church ends up in the hands of the upper hierarchy?

[On Edit: decided not to correct the typo about "right wind Bishop". ]

So as long as your own Parish remains progressive, it in no way contributes to the power of the right wing institutional church? I know nothing about the mechanics of the Catholic church, so am honestly asking.

I think it's a lot to ask people who have spent all their lives (or at least many years) in one church community to prioritize politics over that sense of community, particularly when their own church experience is not the one doing the damage.

My sister's been attending the same church for twenty-five years and, like JZ, she's getting a lot from the community. And that parish isn't at this point being all right-wing and authoritarian, nor has it had any child-abuse scandal. So the problems with the Church as a whole, while she's aware of them, are not affecting her religious experience.

It's like expecting someone to leave the family because Dad is racist. Well, yeah, but he's Dad. You can argue with him and challenge him, but he's still family, and if you can't change him, are you going to walk out and not come back? That's a really personal thing, and I don't think it's my business to inquire into someone else's decisions on that.

Typo, most of the people at my parish donate by check, with "For parish funds only" in the memo line, which restricts the money to, well, the parish only (something a lot of people all over the country have started doing, specifically so they can continue to show support for their parishes while keeping their money out of the hierarchy's hands). Which is a generally accepted practice - un-designated checks go into a general pot from which the diocese can take as needed, but designated ones can't go anywhere else.

And, for now at least, we've got an assistant bishop in the diocesan office who is not only strongly progressive but who grew up in the parish, so we're more or less insulated from the crazy further up (unless he gets moved elsewhere, in which case all bets are off).

Dude, I'm Lutheran(or, you know, was) the only advice I have is to write up a Letterman-style "Top 99 Reasons Your Church Blows Goats" list, nail it on the door and wait for the flame war to start. Not believing is kind of easier, at least till someone writes the Leonard Gospels. Hee, hee, talk about "leaving out the parts people skip"

But I'm inquring into a particular line of reasoning. And something JZ has discussed on this list. At any rate, not telling JZ what to do. Just asking what the full effects of her continued membership in her local Parish are, as someone ignorant of the relation between Parishes and the larger church? Not asking what she is going to do, regardless of the answer.

x-posted and JZ answered - she contributes in a way that does NOT go to the larger hierarchy .

The crackdown on the nuns is so very rage making. Steph says what I feel:

I, personally, have no interest in returning to the Catholic faith, but that really makes my heart hurt for my nuns (I do the newsletter for the Ursulines who run my high school). They're pretty much fiercely devoted to social justice in the scariest parts of the city, and they do so much good. What a fucking kick in the teeth to them.

I was Ursuline educated and my great-aunt is an Ursuline and they, and other nuns I've known, are, for the most part, some really smart, talented, free thinking women. That the institution they've devoted their lives to does this to them makes me sick.

The nun they interviewed about the subject on All Things Considered today is pretty kick ass.

she contributes in a way that does go to the larger hierarchy

No, she only contributes to the local parish.

And even then we don't have much money to be contributing to anything except out rent and food budget.

Corrected the typo (and the Typo).

I hate that kind error where I leave out a critical word and say the exact opposite of what I intend. And its not like I don't review. Something in the way my brain is wired makes it impossible to catch that sort of thing unless I review over and over again.

Timelies all!

Heading to Toronto for FilKOntario tomorrow. Will pack after dinner.