K-Bug's new boyfriend chews (but doesn't spit and I REALLY don't want to know how that works). Anyway, it felt like he was trying to hide it and I gently called him out on it - both chewing and hiding - but told him it was my requisite one nag and I'd try hard not to bug him cause he is an adult and can make his own choices.

Kinda on that thought - this week is going to be interesting. He lives a couple of hours away but works near us, so he is staying with us for a few days. Yes, he asked my permission first. I told him that as long as K-Bug is ok with it and he chips in for food (and basic clean up), then we can give it a go. Am I crazy for agreeing to this?

I am usually successful with holding back my smoking comments. Notable exception is my son because he is mine and I claim the right to hassle him daily if I please. Also, a pregnant employee because that bugs me.

Hec, you seem to have misread my post to say that I object to my brother's concerns instead of the manner in which he voiced them. You also seem to be the only one to have made that error.

I have more to say on the links between addiction and depression, but first a few questions for you, Hec. Have you been clinically depressed? Have you been addicted to cigarettes or other substances? Have you participated in self-harming behavior? Have you studied behavioral change theory? Have you taught health education? Have you attended 12-step meetings? Can you describe some of the overlaps between Buddhism and neuroscience?

Just trying to asses your level of knowledge before making any assumptions in discussion.

smonster, you have my sympathy. My friend H has apparently taking it upon herself to "fix" me, trying to get me to write more or trying to find me jobs, etc. She is well meaning, but it is making me feel so much worse.

Had an interesting conversation with some friends. I'lI stick with the low-key example.I have a friend. That when ever I wear a certain shade -she says - you should wear that color all the time.

I know what she means , but -should is a parental word. Someone telling you what to do. Most of my wardrobe is in the shades she is talking about, because,duh, that color looks good on me. However ,a part of me wants to go get a lemon yellow top just because and part of me wonders if she thinks I'm that clueless.

It really isn't any different with health issues, that happen to be even more personal. I can tell my DH how many calories are in a teaspoon of oil- he doesn't know. I can't tell him what to eat.

Yeah, half my moodgym work is stuff like getting rid of "shoulds," certainly not having more thrust on me.

K-Bug's new boyfriend chews (but doesn't spit and I REALLY don't want to know how that works). Anyway, it felt like he was trying to hide it and I gently called him out on it - both chewing and hiding - but told him it was my requisite one nag and I'd try hard not to bug him cause he is an adult and can make his own choices.

Ugh. I guess if he doesn't spit, I could leave it alone, but it is still nasty.

One of the places I temped at this lady's son went through 2 cans of Skoal a day. He was either a senior in high school or just graduated. She'd taken him to the doctor who showed him all the stuff that could happen. She tried to get him to try nicotine gum or patches but he wouldn't use them. She said she wanted him to quit and she tried everything but he just wouldn't. or the addiction was too strong.

The only thing she could do was fobid him from spitting in the house, but he still did that sometimes.

I knew guys in high school like that, with either spit cups and ick ick ick ick.

I have more to say on the links between addiction and depression, but first a few questions for you, Hec. Have you been clinically depressed? Have you been addicted to cigarettes or other substances? Have you participated in self-harming behavior? Have you studied behavioral change theory? Have you taught health education? Have you attended 12-step meetings? Can you describe some of the overlaps between Buddhism and neuroscience?

If I ever wrote a paragraph like this to you, such a torrent of Mansplaining complaints would come raining down around my head. Your presumption that you have a mastery of these subjects beyond my ken all wrapped up in a helpful disclaimer that you want to be on the same page is just...well, I don't think you'd cotton to it if I addressed you that way.

Before I answer your questions, I would like to clarify a few things since a lot of people chimed in with stuff not particularly related to what I actually said.

I replied specifically to one of Smonster's comments.

"Jeebies crispies, our grandfather died of lung cancer and most of our mom's aunts (there were several) died smoking-related deaths."

To which I replied: "I might have to side with your brother on this one."

It wasn't an ad hominem attack. It was an opinion that differed.

Cass objected to my comments, so I said this:

"I don't really equate depression with smoking.

People do quit smoking simply because they decide to.

People don't get over depression simply because they decide to."

And that's all I said. I voiced an opinion. And I made a statement that depression and addiction weren't the same thing. Which is true. There's not a therapist in the world that would say "You know what's exactly the same? Depression and addiction."

Are they related? Sure lots of issues are interrelated. But you can be an addict without being depressed, and you can be depressed without being an addict. We don't say addicts are non compos. So - as a culture - we presume they're responsible for their choices, and can be held accountable for them.

I think addiction is more complex than that, and obviously some people seem to be wired more strongly for it and have a more difficult time resisting it, or breaking out of a cycle of addiction. I get that and I'm not making any kind of judgment about how people who have an addiction are weak and simply lacking in will.

I never once suggested or implied that quitting smoking or any addiction was easy. I know it is not, and not simply a matter of will.

But I would argue that there is a much stronger element of volition in addiction, than there is in depression.

That's not a radical stance.

Onward.

Hec, you seem to have misread my post to say that I object to my brother's concerns instead of the manner in which he voiced them. You also seem to be the only one to have made that error.

No, you're mistaken. I support your brother in that I think family members get to be annoying noodges about this kind of self-harmful behavior. It's not my place to tell you to quit smoking, and I haven't tried to persuade you to quit. (Though I wish you would because I care about your well being.) But I support your brother voicing his concerns even if it's counterproductive or pisses you off.

My point is pretty much the same ones that Scrappy and Laura have alluded to, and which Teppy has stated before about her Dad not making enough lifestyle changes in response to his heartattacks.

The people who are closest to you are going to be concerned, frustrated, worried and sometimes angry at your self-harmful behavior. And I think that's okay. My point is not concerned with whether his behavior is helpful or efficaceous. I understand that it may be off-putting, or counterproductive.

Back to your questions.

Hec. Have you been clinically depressed?

I was depressed after my mother died. Also, after my separation from EM. I know what depression feels like, and I had to deal with the effects of it for a couple of years of my life. I do not have chronic depression, (continued...)

( continues...) nor have I been on ADs. But I have been depressed before.

Have you been addicted to cigarettes or other substances?

I have never smoked nor been addicted to any drugs other than coffee and cocktails. Which I am not exempting but generally speaking I maintain those predelictions within acceptable societal norms. I don't think I have an addictive personality.

Have you participated in self-harming behavior?

No. Though I was involved with a woman for three years who did cut herself, suffered from chronic depression and had bouts of suicidal ideation. So I'm not unfamiliar with the psychology or dynamics of self-harm.

Have you studied behavioral change theory? Have you taught health education? Have you attended 12-step meetings?

Nope. Nope and nope. But I am familiar with the 12-step process, and have studied enough psychology that you probably don't have to start at BF Skinner or cognitive therapy.

Can you describe some of the overlaps between Buddhism and neuroscience?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I studied Buddhism in college and understand the tenets and distinctions between Indian (Theravadan and Mahayana), Tibetan (more syncretic) and Zen (more philosophical). And I have a basic understanding of neuroscience and how it relates to behavior.

Do you need more context? My mother was an alcoholic and a life time smoker who died of cancer related to her smoking. My grandmother and my uncle both suffered from emphysema.

Also, I have a sister, she smokes, and I've watched her health degrade considerably as she's gotten into her late fifties and smoking has been a large contributing factor. And I'm not shy about being the annoying brother that tells her she should quit.

So..."I support your brother on this" because I am that kind of brother.