Had an interesting conversation with some friends. I'lI stick with the low-key example.I have a friend. That when ever I wear a certain shade -she says - you should wear that color all the time.

I know what she means , but -should is a parental word. Someone telling you what to do. Most of my wardrobe is in the shades she is talking about, because,duh, that color looks good on me. However ,a part of me wants to go get a lemon yellow top just because and part of me wonders if she thinks I'm that clueless.

It really isn't any different with health issues, that happen to be even more personal. I can tell my DH how many calories are in a teaspoon of oil- he doesn't know. I can't tell him what to eat.

Yeah, half my moodgym work is stuff like getting rid of "shoulds," certainly not having more thrust on me.

K-Bug's new boyfriend chews (but doesn't spit and I REALLY don't want to know how that works). Anyway, it felt like he was trying to hide it and I gently called him out on it - both chewing and hiding - but told him it was my requisite one nag and I'd try hard not to bug him cause he is an adult and can make his own choices.

Ugh. I guess if he doesn't spit, I could leave it alone, but it is still nasty.

One of the places I temped at this lady's son went through 2 cans of Skoal a day. He was either a senior in high school or just graduated. She'd taken him to the doctor who showed him all the stuff that could happen. She tried to get him to try nicotine gum or patches but he wouldn't use them. She said she wanted him to quit and she tried everything but he just wouldn't. or the addiction was too strong.

The only thing she could do was fobid him from spitting in the house, but he still did that sometimes.

I knew guys in high school like that, with either spit cups and ick ick ick ick.

I have more to say on the links between addiction and depression, but first a few questions for you, Hec. Have you been clinically depressed? Have you been addicted to cigarettes or other substances? Have you participated in self-harming behavior? Have you studied behavioral change theory? Have you taught health education? Have you attended 12-step meetings? Can you describe some of the overlaps between Buddhism and neuroscience?

If I ever wrote a paragraph like this to you, such a torrent of Mansplaining complaints would come raining down around my head. Your presumption that you have a mastery of these subjects beyond my ken all wrapped up in a helpful disclaimer that you want to be on the same page is just...well, I don't think you'd cotton to it if I addressed you that way.

Before I answer your questions, I would like to clarify a few things since a lot of people chimed in with stuff not particularly related to what I actually said.

I replied specifically to one of Smonster's comments.

"Jeebies crispies, our grandfather died of lung cancer and most of our mom's aunts (there were several) died smoking-related deaths."

To which I replied: "I might have to side with your brother on this one."

It wasn't an ad hominem attack. It was an opinion that differed.

Cass objected to my comments, so I said this:

"I don't really equate depression with smoking.

People do quit smoking simply because they decide to.

People don't get over depression simply because they decide to."

And that's all I said. I voiced an opinion. And I made a statement that depression and addiction weren't the same thing. Which is true. There's not a therapist in the world that would say "You know what's exactly the same? Depression and addiction."

Are they related? Sure lots of issues are interrelated. But you can be an addict without being depressed, and you can be depressed without being an addict. We don't say addicts are non compos. So - as a culture - we presume they're responsible for their choices, and can be held accountable for them.

I think addiction is more complex than that, and obviously some people seem to be wired more strongly for it and have a more difficult time resisting it, or breaking out of a cycle of addiction. I get that and I'm not making any kind of judgment about how people who have an addiction are weak and simply lacking in will.

I never once suggested or implied that quitting smoking or any addiction was easy. I know it is not, and not simply a matter of will.

But I would argue that there is a much stronger element of volition in addiction, than there is in depression.

That's not a radical stance.

Onward.

Hec, you seem to have misread my post to say that I object to my brother's concerns instead of the manner in which he voiced them. You also seem to be the only one to have made that error.

No, you're mistaken. I support your brother in that I think family members get to be annoying noodges about this kind of self-harmful behavior. It's not my place to tell you to quit smoking, and I haven't tried to persuade you to quit. (Though I wish you would because I care about your well being.) But I support your brother voicing his concerns even if it's counterproductive or pisses you off.

My point is pretty much the same ones that Scrappy and Laura have alluded to, and which Teppy has stated before about her Dad not making enough lifestyle changes in response to his heartattacks.

The people who are closest to you are going to be concerned, frustrated, worried and sometimes angry at your self-harmful behavior. And I think that's okay. My point is not concerned with whether his behavior is helpful or efficaceous. I understand that it may be off-putting, or counterproductive.

Back to your questions.

Hec. Have you been clinically depressed?

I was depressed after my mother died. Also, after my separation from EM. I know what depression feels like, and I had to deal with the effects of it for a couple of years of my life. I do not have chronic depression, (continued...)

( continues...) nor have I been on ADs. But I have been depressed before.

Have you been addicted to cigarettes or other substances?

I have never smoked nor been addicted to any drugs other than coffee and cocktails. Which I am not exempting but generally speaking I maintain those predelictions within acceptable societal norms. I don't think I have an addictive personality.

Have you participated in self-harming behavior?

No. Though I was involved with a woman for three years who did cut herself, suffered from chronic depression and had bouts of suicidal ideation. So I'm not unfamiliar with the psychology or dynamics of self-harm.

Have you studied behavioral change theory? Have you taught health education? Have you attended 12-step meetings?

Nope. Nope and nope. But I am familiar with the 12-step process, and have studied enough psychology that you probably don't have to start at BF Skinner or cognitive therapy.

Can you describe some of the overlaps between Buddhism and neuroscience?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I studied Buddhism in college and understand the tenets and distinctions between Indian (Theravadan and Mahayana), Tibetan (more syncretic) and Zen (more philosophical). And I have a basic understanding of neuroscience and how it relates to behavior.

Do you need more context? My mother was an alcoholic and a life time smoker who died of cancer related to her smoking. My grandmother and my uncle both suffered from emphysema.

Also, I have a sister, she smokes, and I've watched her health degrade considerably as she's gotten into her late fifties and smoking has been a large contributing factor. And I'm not shy about being the annoying brother that tells her she should quit.

So..."I support your brother on this" because I am that kind of brother.

I don't think you'd cotton to it if I addressed you that way.

Perhaps you'd prefer that I were glibly dismissive? Mansplainers never ask what you know. They just assume they know better, and then don't listen when you try to explain otherwise. In this case I happened to be correct in presuming that you lack first-person experience with non-situational clinical depression over an extended period of time and with substance addiction.

Where I was apparently mistaken was in assuming that your interest was in being supportive in a helpful way. Basically the whole thing boils down to this:

smonster: Wow, my brother was just an annoying, self-righteous prig, and completely counterproductive to boot! I know he means well, but damn!

Hec: I support your brother's right to be an annoying, self-righteous, and counterproductive prig.

To which I say, fine - I reassert my right to call him out on being an annoying, self-righteous, and counterproductive prig.

I'm so glad that's straightened out. Now I can sleep. I think instead of counting sheep, I'll count the ways in which addiction and depression are viable analogues.

Riddle me this: If you can't resist the temptation to pester your sister about smoking, knowing it doesn't help and might well harm, how can you expect her to resist the temptation to smoke?

By the way, I quit smoking almost six months ago, which I believe I've mentioned in this thread more than once.

With that, I am unsubbing from Bitches for a minimum of 24 hours. Call it a flounce, call it Doblerizing, whatever. Somebody tell Dana she can come back.

I'm not trying to hijack the conversation here, or change the topic. Just sharing a good day. I figure, with all the BS going on, the cancers the various board members and families have been fighting, the crazy weather, the Yankees getting blanked in the post season, and everything else bad that's going on, I figured we need something good. So, I'm sharing something positive.

Last night, I got my ballot in the mail. Oh. It seems my ballot location is my living room. Swell. Glad I spent the weekend going over the measures with my Mom. Great. So I fill in the sample ballot, then start to transfer it to the scan-tron actual ballot this morning. And wouldn't you know, the second to last item, I fill in the wrong bubble. Son of a ... well, as it happens, I have to work Sunday, so I decided to take the morning off. I lazy around a bit, listening to the devastation from the east coast on the radio. Then hop in the car to head off to the county registrar to get a new ballot. First GPS takes me on the most strangest of routes, trying to get me to turn down a carpool lane exit, and circling the town on 3 different freeways... blah blah LA freeway crap. Finally find the place. Parking is a nightmare. Ugg. Get upstairs to the 3rd floor. And it was truly, the most unique governmental office I have ever visited. Folks on both sides of the counter were smiling and happy to be there. "I wanna vote" "I'd be happy to help you with that". So, I fill out the form to void my flawed ballot. And then proceed to wait about an hour for the new one. Oy. But the whole time, I was very entertained with the people watching. I was sitting next to a guy who was a flood adjuster, who had to vote today, because he was flying out to Richmond VA. I asked if Richmond got hit hard with the storm (my brother lives there) Nope, it's just the rally point for the nation of flood adjusters. From there, they will divy up the areas hit hardest, and start filing claims. Then, I had a young mom & grandmom with the 4ish year old son sitting next to me. I asked, teasingly, if he was voting. The Grandma and I had a fun chuckle on that. Their was the old hispanic gentleman, who couldn't hear his number called, and his family helping him, telling him to go up to the counter. The excitement on his face that he was getting a ballot. No clue what the story was. Just enjoying the faces. The county workers switching from English to Spanish to help him out. So, it was a long wait, but I was entertained.

I get to work. And jump on a project I started yesterday. Happy to discover I only had about 15 minutes left to it, and quickly finished that project.

Then started slugging through the emails, setting up meetings, learning of equipment changes for the open house, coming up with a brilliant idea for hardware re-allocation to something useful, and my boss asking "how much" and happy to say the brilliant idea was free! Helping dancers get their music ready for the show we will be teching in next week.

Productive day. Feeling good. Then, it was shop hours. Time with the undergrads who do hours in support of shows they are not in, to pay forward for when they are in shows and other 101's will be helping the shops then. And my TA's, who are pre-professionals, honing their craft. This is where it really became a cool day.

After 2+ years of trying to keep up with the whirlwhind of crap going on, I realized we were in a small lull in the schedule. And we could do something I've been wanting to do since I got here, but havn't had the time/energy. It sounds mundane to the non-sound person, so forgive my enthusiasm.

We set up a SMAART rig (software that compares two audio signals) to compare a reference mic to check how good our wireless mic elements are. They often get gunked up from actor sweat/makeup/etc. So we started a spreadsheet with model/serial numbers and rating them. And teaching the TA's a new trick they could use when doing a musical. And then spending about 30 minutes, hearing them asking "Oh, what if..." and "but why..." and "can we try...". And we (continued...)

( continues...) had the time. And we did. We explored. Hell, I learned things today. I saw things I knew in theory, but never had the tools or time to ever try in practice. This is what I was hoping would happen when I took this job. To take the gear we have, and try new things. Test. Compare. Explore. And we did! We were productive. We are making improvements to our shop. We are preparing for the musical coming up in a few weeks. And we were playing. And we were learning. Lightbulbs were turning on over the heads of the TA's! It was so cool.

All in all. I'd call it a good day.

In this case I happened to be correct in presuming that you lack first-person experience with non-situational clinical depression over an extended period of time and with substance addiction.

You win?

Where I was apparently mistaken was in assuming that your interest was in being supportive in a helpful way.

I said I was sympathetic with your brother's point of view. I really don't presume to know what's going to be most helpful for you. I wish you good health and hope for your well-being and that is sincere.

Call it a flounce

Okay.