sj - I totally hear that and interestingly, so do a lot of schools, including ours, that do not do out loud reading in classrooms anymore. They are tested on their verbal reading one-on-one with teachers.

brenda - yeah. I totally get the age thing and I'm not worried too much about the stigma of her being retained. It would be the perfect time - next year all the kids move on to other schools for 2nd grade so it's not like she'd get crap from the other kids. And for those that would still be in this school, she'd be in a different classroom, so not too much issue there, either. Joe, OTOH, is having a harder time with the thought of retention than I am.

Aims, my niece had some of the same issues (started kindergarten at 4, attention issues that required meds). My sister-in-law worked with her both on her skill set, and handling things. Eventually, they saw that she needed to be held back a year just to level the playing field. She did fine until high school when she decided that she wanted to be off her meds. She couldn't make it in public school and it took an extra 8 months for her to get her GED attending on-line school without meds(but she did finish!). Now that she's 19, she's back on meds and is holding her own in her fist semester in college.

I know that with both Allie and Dave thru 4th grade, they had to take timed math skills tests - 50 problems in 5 minutes(man, I hated that... no one comes up to you on the street and says "quick what's 9 x 8") It stressed Allie out to the max. She couldn't pass the division one for the longest time, and she was a GATE student.

David spent his entire 3rd grade not speaking in class unless forced to because he was afraid of his teacher. There was no outward agression, they just didn't connect, and it took until mid-way thru 4th grade for him to come out of it. Then there was no shutting him up. The kid's a freshman now, and man he still talks non-stop.

So bottom line is... assess her skills critically. You may be doing her a favor in the long run holding her back if she's not groking math, but if it is just a teacher issue, you should be able to see it pretty quickly if you move classrooms.

sj - I totally hear that and interestingly, so do a lot of schools, including ours, that do not do out loud reading in classrooms anymore. They are tested on their verbal reading one-on-one with teachers.

Which still might be enough to make Em nervous, more nervous than she would be reading to you or Joe.

Switching classrooms is, I think, going to be my biggest barometer in where her skill level is. It's hard to gauge skill level if she won't do the stinkin work cause she's afraid of her teacher.

And it's interesting to use the word bullying. I dn't like to throw that word around because it should be taken very seriously and maybe it's to a fault on my part, because I read what I wrote and I would tell anyone else that their kid was being bullied by their teacher. Ms. N, in general, bullies kids. Specifically the lower performing kids or the kids who have parents she doesn't like. And it's not fair. And I feel like even though I see it, I'm not in a position or ina school where I can say anything about it. And it sucks.

I'm kind of with brenda on this. While I'm generally eye-rolly about holding kids from K for an extra year because they miss a cut off by a few weeks (both Emmett and Matilda are September kids, and in about four years Sept. 1 will be the California cutoff. But I'm glad I pushed them up).

Still, because of that issue I've studied up on it a lot and there's something to be said for being the oldest kid in your cohort, especially if you're dealing with ADHD stuff.

In Little League it's a given that kids that are born in May have a huge advantage over kids born in April. So don't let the Mama Bear get in the way of seeing what's best for Emeline. At this age there's no stigma about staying back a year, especially if she's the youngest. Later there will be.

I mean, she's never going to not be the youngest, so that might not be a gap she'll ever really make up. Whereas, she could gain a lot of confidence and social skills by being the oldest in her cohort.

This POV is just from my coaching years where I saw kids who would have been the best in their age group pushed up to a higher age group where they were only middle of the pack good. And I think there's a big boost of confidence that comes from being good in your cohort.

Oh and Aims, there's only 3 weeks difference in age between my niece and Allie, but the cut off was right between their birthdays. So Allie was one of the oldest kids in her class, and her maturity helped once she got into high school.

Even after being retained we ended up putting Bobby in a 504 plan. The only real changes they made in his program was that he took big tests in a separate room with no distractions and got double time. And we had lots of conferences.

Now that he is in high school most of this has resolved. He still is ADD, but his coping skills have improved. The extra year of maturity was a help here. He still goes off track all the damn time, but he is so charming all his teachers love him anyway. Every single new teacher I hear the same thing, Robert talks all the time and won't finish what he starts, and we just love him because he is so sweet and considerate.

sj, my sympathies. What an awful thing to have to endure.

Aims, between how young Em is and the fact that her school allows so much self-direction, I honestly think holding her back is sommething to consider if you don't want to think about changing to a more rigorously structured setting.

 I thought you liked fire, Cass.

There are SO limits.  Apparently. 

It honestly made me realize how many disasters - everywhere - are averted all of the damn time.  Because barring annoying some passengers who had no idea and a little aching, nothing happened.

Aims, between how young Em is and the fact that her school allows so much self-direction, I honestly think holding her back is sommething to consider if you don't want to think about changing to a more rigorously structured setting.

It's just her classroom that is so self-directed and after this year, she'd be going into a more structured classroom, anyway. Which is a huge reason of why we want to see how she does with more structure. And at this point, I'd RATHER she went to more structure. I think she'll do better.

It sounds like more structure can only be good.

And, if that isn't enough, there really is no sitgma at this age to holding her back. Which is good as well.