That is an excellent point, Typo. I fear you're right.

God I hope not. My oldest friend in the world is Iranian and lives in West Texas. Needless to say, it was eye opening driving around near the border with her.

So basically this law means its supporters hate brown people more than they hate rapists or murderers.

Oh, I'm pretty sure they're assuming they're one and the same.

Immigration is very frustrating for me since I worked (and adored) so many Hispanic students who were mostly Mexican, and told me horrific stories about coyotes and manipulative and abusive employers. I had several students who were illegal, and a few who had been here since they were 2 or 3, but since they were illegal, their educational opportunties were limited. Our valedictorian was illegal; no college for her. Some of our Kaufman scholars were illegal, spent 4 years in the program, the admin of the program KNEW they were illegal, and the college scholarships they worked for and were promised were denied because it would be "too much trouble." And three of the kids got into Rockhurst, and I KNOW the program people knew these kids were illegal since they were accepted into the program as freshmen.

Most of the AZ law supporters are using national security as an excuse for racial/ethnic discrimination against Latinos, and it disgusts me. National security, my ass. Yes, there are concerns with crime and trafficking, but that's a minority of immigrants. There's a better solution, one that's human and color-blind.

Java, I am thrilled that your company is doing something so tangibly helpful. That's so exciting and fulfilling.

Kat, what? Is your partner a teacher too? I am finding college teaching a relief in that way; I don't drop the f-bomb, but I can certainly be looser in my speech than in high school, and for my personality, it's such a relief.

I hope things gets less frustrating. I wish I had a transporter; I would be an excellent toy organizeuse!

David, I remember getting tonsilitis before a big government class project my senior year (the teacher was a strict old-school deadline teacher, and I had to get this big project done to pass with a decent grade.) They were up all night, and were hugely pissed that (a) I'd slacked off and (b) that they got a B- on this project! Only school thing my parents ever really "did" -- they'd help with science projects and such. A 67 page project in, what, 6th grade? 7th? That's a little much, it seems.

I would have a lot less problem with the law if it were a secondary offense, like wearing a seat belt in some states. You can't get arrested for it, but if you're getting pulled over for something else, they can charge you for it.

Yeah, I peripherally know some people who do peacemaking work on the border, basically getting in the way of violence, offering water & basic first aid, standing around when the border patrol agents did their stuff to make sure there weren't abuses, that sort of thing. Talking to them was shocking in what they see on a regular basis. And up here I've still got people who think that illegal immigration is a capital offense.

I had a near-discussion of the Arizona law yesterday with a friend who stated flat out that he hated illegals. He gave the usual "follow the rules if you want to be here" thing and such. I didn't want to get into it, because A) I love the man, B) he owns the house I live in, and C) I didn't have facts to back up my feelings and didn't want to start a nasty debate on a hot button issue. One thing he said is that half the crime in Utah and Arizona is committed by illegals. I'm not sure where to look to find stats to either refute or confirm that. What is a reliable source of crime stats vis a vis citizenship status?

Well, if you are counting their very being there as part of the crime statistic that's probably true.

Also, Connie, on his definition of crime, because just standing on US soil and breathing while illegal is technically criminal.

Also, while keeping in mind Spike's practical screed ("They lost! You won! Quit yer liberal guilt puling!), I find it hilarious and irritating about all the "This is our land! Stay home!" yelling coming from anyone of European ancestry. Especially when dealing with a people with Spanish and Indian blood since, yo, Spanish-American War? Cali settlement for centuries before "we" won it? @@

EDIT: Xpost with Trudy!

Well, here's an article from, of all places, the American Conservative, refuting the view that hispanics in general have a higher crime rate: [link] I'm re-skimming it to see if they have the exact statistic on crime by illegal immigrants. What it does note is that the data, such as it is, is probably incorrect:

The major difficulty with the study’s evidence is that while prisons have an easy time gathering ethnicity data, determining the immigration status of convicts is far more difficult, and is generally based on self-reporting. Not surprisingly, most convicted felons are not eager to reveal their lack of citizenship and then face deportation once their sentences are completed, so the numbers must be taken with a grain of salt. In fact, a November 2009 paper by Steven A. Camarota and Jessica M. Vaughan for the Center for Immigration Studies raised serious doubts about the accuracy of these federal immigrant-imprisonment statistics, both based on the doubtful methodology employed and the huge, anomalous swings that occur on an ongoing basis.7 For example, the official data seems to show a 28 percent decline in the number of incarcerated immigrants between 1990 and 2000, even as the total number of immigrants grew 59 percent, then a sudden 146 percent rise in incarcerated immigrants from 2000 to 2007, a period when immigrant numbers grew only 22 percent.

If you want a quick and dirty metric for the effect of illegal immigration on crime, note that crime rates in Los Angeles are at 1960s levels, regardless of the rate of illegal immigration. Crime is down precipitously nationwide as well.

NYC has lots of illegal Irish. Nobody seems to be freaking out about them.

It must be because they're overstaying visas instead of sneaking in. Right?