And now YOU'RE making me think, dang it!

Sorry!

"kickin' it with my ninjas"

This is fantastic.

You know there are ninjitsu practitioners screaming "STOP IT!" right now, right?

Still, there's no way "ninja" is going to become an insult in this culture.

Hec, I appreciate your long and considered response. I'm still curious about the "gypped" thing but respect your discretion.

Sometimes it does trump word choice. In fact, in most instances I try to be conscious of all the implications of my word choice. If I'm not actively trying to offend somebody then it's poor communication to do so. The burden is not on the listener to be unoffended. I am responsible for my words and their effect.

All true.

To continue my not-radical proposition, I weigh the value of linguistic freedom, nuance and vigor in balance to the potential to offend differently than you do. I do consider both elements.

I consider both elements, but I probably tend to weigh "offensive" heavier than you do.

Language doesn't get hurt feelings but it can be demeaned and watered down and made weak. Euphemizing is a really pernicious attack on meaning and discourse, widely used by politicians and managers. It can become a kind of bad faith, and creates distrust.

While this may be true, we have not been discussing euphemisms. We have been discussing cultural/ethnic/other privilege slurs. I disagree with you that eliminating them weakens the language. (I know the "niggardly" thing is a misconception but I stand by my swastika comparison.)

I am conscious that the broadest categories that define me (white, male, het, cis, educated etc.) align me with the dominant culture. And that I do have the privilege of Not Having To Think About A Lot of Shitty Things Because They're Not Always In My Face. But I do think about them. It's not unconsidered.

I appreciate that you are aware of this. I pondered long and hard about bringing up privilege in this discussion, but did because I feel that it's relevant to language use and especially the examples up for discussion.

I am not arguing that "potential offense" does or should always outweigh word choice. I agree with you that equivocation and the non-apology inherent in passive voice, for example (mistakes were made).

I recognize that you will likely continue to disagree. I simply don't see why, with the richness of language (not just English), one would choose to use a term like "niggardly" or "gypped". "Miserly" and "cheated" work just fine, thanks.

Please explain to me how racial/ethnic slurs are a benefit to language and communication. Seriously, I can't wait.

Well, I can see it in writing fiction. What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

I was going on the assumption that we were discussing interpersonal communication, rather than creating fiction. That's a whole other category.

Whether I say "You pussy!" or "You are a weak and ineffectual person who lacks the strength to deal with this situation," it's still demeaning. And maybe I ought not be demeaning someone to begin with.

This, at the heart of the matter, makes me think. It's easy for me to control my use of language that might demean. It's much less easy for me to think carefully about the way I lose my rag at good people who don't deserve it. Because I try to be careful and not call them insults doesn't always mean I avoided insulting them.

Zenkitty, your thoughtful explanation of your use of 'crazy' is really interesting.

What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

Aren't there more creative ways than just using language to oppress them, in much the same way as racist arseholes oppress others?

You know there are ninjitsu practitioners screaming "STOP IT!" right now, right?

The UK Bronzers call The Girl 'the ninja' (she's a black belt in... something... I think taekwondo... I need to get to know my future wife better before August, really). She likes this a bit too much.

I'm not pregnant, but the dresses JZ linked to are beautiful.

Yeah, I know... nice compromise, no? Because she knows "nigga" isn't always an insult, but she hates the sound of it. I have never seen my mother so angry as when my bro got in a fight with me and busted out with "c--" but then one of my books for feminist book group was called that so I don't feel quite *that* way about it, though in a fight it's an unfair advantage. But my mom won't even call Pussy from the Sopranos that.ETA: ita, I might guess you know actual ninjas.

Shove a baby out your dick and we'll see who cries the longest, motherfucker.

ILU.

When I say someone's "crazy", I'm usually NOT referring to an actual diagnosed mental illness.

Right, me either, but I've heard the same reasoning being given for "gay" and "lame." I have trouble finding fault with that parallel.

Also, I don't even know if my relative is offended (I should ask, duh). And I'll probably never be able to purge it completely from my vocab. But I think it's important to consider.

Well, I can see it in writing fiction. What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

One possible downfall is seeming to endorse behavior one means to condemn. Which gets into the rabbithole of authorial intent. Oops!

I was going on the assumption that we were discussing interpersonal communication, rather than creating fiction. That's a whole other category.

Yeah, I think fiction writing has to be in a separate category from speech. If one day fiction writers had to look in old dictionaries to find appropriate vocabularies for their racist asshole characters because those words had all dropped out of casual use? I'd be okay with that.

So I just got "spoken to" about being "inappropriate" and I really don't think I was being.

We are having an open house for our agency tomorrow as part of our fall fundraiser, so there is a lot of cleaning and decorating and final touches being done today. One of these things are a set of pictures that are, essentially, graduated circles of diferent colors glued on top of each other in stacks on a white background. They are quite awesome. My boss commented that sadly, they are only on loan. I responded (while wearing my painting clothes since I have been painting walls most of the day), "I can probably recreate them with some scrapbook paper and glue." I got an immediate glare and a hushed voice, "Be careful! The artist is here in our office!" I said, "Oh. Ok." and walked away from it, but what I wanted to say was, "I'm pretty sure that's she's aware that her work is made of PAPER CIRCLES AND GLUE seeing as she's the one that actually CREATED THE ART!"

What say the Bitches, was I being inappropriate?

one of my books for feminist book group was called that

Heh. I *LOVE* that book. It's sitting on top of our stereo system right now. Emmett is safe from it because he generally refuses to look at any books that don't have baseball players, dogs or Star Wars characters on the covers, but I guess I should move it somewhere before Matilda learns to read.

authorial intent

OH NO YOU DIDN'T