Please explain to me how racial/ethnic slurs are a benefit to language and communication. Seriously, I can't wait.

Well, I can see it in writing fiction. What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

I was going on the assumption that we were discussing interpersonal communication, rather than creating fiction. That's a whole other category.

Whether I say "You pussy!" or "You are a weak and ineffectual person who lacks the strength to deal with this situation," it's still demeaning. And maybe I ought not be demeaning someone to begin with.

This, at the heart of the matter, makes me think. It's easy for me to control my use of language that might demean. It's much less easy for me to think carefully about the way I lose my rag at good people who don't deserve it. Because I try to be careful and not call them insults doesn't always mean I avoided insulting them.

Zenkitty, your thoughtful explanation of your use of 'crazy' is really interesting.

What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

Aren't there more creative ways than just using language to oppress them, in much the same way as racist arseholes oppress others?

You know there are ninjitsu practitioners screaming "STOP IT!" right now, right?

The UK Bronzers call The Girl 'the ninja' (she's a black belt in... something... I think taekwondo... I need to get to know my future wife better before August, really). She likes this a bit too much.

I'm not pregnant, but the dresses JZ linked to are beautiful.

Yeah, I know... nice compromise, no? Because she knows "nigga" isn't always an insult, but she hates the sound of it. I have never seen my mother so angry as when my bro got in a fight with me and busted out with "c--" but then one of my books for feminist book group was called that so I don't feel quite *that* way about it, though in a fight it's an unfair advantage. But my mom won't even call Pussy from the Sopranos that.ETA: ita, I might guess you know actual ninjas.

Shove a baby out your dick and we'll see who cries the longest, motherfucker.

ILU.

When I say someone's "crazy", I'm usually NOT referring to an actual diagnosed mental illness.

Right, me either, but I've heard the same reasoning being given for "gay" and "lame." I have trouble finding fault with that parallel.

Also, I don't even know if my relative is offended (I should ask, duh). And I'll probably never be able to purge it completely from my vocab. But I think it's important to consider.

Well, I can see it in writing fiction. What if you want to portray someone as a racist asshole?

One possible downfall is seeming to endorse behavior one means to condemn. Which gets into the rabbithole of authorial intent. Oops!

I was going on the assumption that we were discussing interpersonal communication, rather than creating fiction. That's a whole other category.

Yeah, I think fiction writing has to be in a separate category from speech. If one day fiction writers had to look in old dictionaries to find appropriate vocabularies for their racist asshole characters because those words had all dropped out of casual use? I'd be okay with that.

So I just got "spoken to" about being "inappropriate" and I really don't think I was being.

We are having an open house for our agency tomorrow as part of our fall fundraiser, so there is a lot of cleaning and decorating and final touches being done today. One of these things are a set of pictures that are, essentially, graduated circles of diferent colors glued on top of each other in stacks on a white background. They are quite awesome. My boss commented that sadly, they are only on loan. I responded (while wearing my painting clothes since I have been painting walls most of the day), "I can probably recreate them with some scrapbook paper and glue." I got an immediate glare and a hushed voice, "Be careful! The artist is here in our office!" I said, "Oh. Ok." and walked away from it, but what I wanted to say was, "I'm pretty sure that's she's aware that her work is made of PAPER CIRCLES AND GLUE seeing as she's the one that actually CREATED THE ART!"

What say the Bitches, was I being inappropriate?

one of my books for feminist book group was called that

Heh. I *LOVE* that book. It's sitting on top of our stereo system right now. Emmett is safe from it because he generally refuses to look at any books that don't have baseball players, dogs or Star Wars characters on the covers, but I guess I should move it somewhere before Matilda learns to read.

authorial intent

OH NO YOU DIDN'T

Zenkitty, your thoughtful explanation of your use of 'crazy' is really interesting.

Thanks, I was afraid I'd sound like a long-winded jerk. You should have seen the unedited version.

But my mom won't even call Pussy from the Sopranos that.

My mother's nickname as a child was Puss or Pussy. They meant "kittycat", of course, and they were all blissfully unaware of any other meaning.

I just can't say the word "cunt". It sounds awful to my ears. That word will never be on my list to be reclaimed.

To the contrary, I think it's weak writing that can't come up with a different way of stating something.

Contrary all you like, you know exactly the kind of soft, watered down, timidly inoffensive, endlessly qualified language favored on the left that I'm talking about.

My point holds, I think. The bigger issue is that you cannot uproot words from their cultural history. erika's long running discussion of the issues around words like "disabled," "able-bodied," "lame," "crippled" indicates some of the problem. Trying to control the language is a way to try and control thinking (cf., Orwell) and people do resist and resent that attempt.

And it does create a kind of falsity. Wrapping lots of relentless positive uplift language around the "differently abled" doesn't build wheelchair ramps.

Back to the related discussion, I never use "gay" as a perjorative, but I might use it as a descriptor. (Waxed eyebrows on men, rhumba sleeves, jazz hands.)

"Cocksucker" is kind of an endearment at this point thanks to Deadwood.

I still use "lame." I didn't use to use "retarded" but now it's crept back into my vocabulary.

Language is such that "developmentally delayed" will convey the same thing eventually. Just as "special ed" started neutral and trended negative and gave us "riding the short bus."

People will always reach for the phrase that connotes, "You are incurably stupid."