I was going on the assumption that we were discussing interpersonal communication, rather than creating fiction. That's a whole other category.

Yeah, I think fiction writing has to be in a separate category from speech. If one day fiction writers had to look in old dictionaries to find appropriate vocabularies for their racist asshole characters because those words had all dropped out of casual use? I'd be okay with that.

So I just got "spoken to" about being "inappropriate" and I really don't think I was being.

We are having an open house for our agency tomorrow as part of our fall fundraiser, so there is a lot of cleaning and decorating and final touches being done today. One of these things are a set of pictures that are, essentially, graduated circles of diferent colors glued on top of each other in stacks on a white background. They are quite awesome. My boss commented that sadly, they are only on loan. I responded (while wearing my painting clothes since I have been painting walls most of the day), "I can probably recreate them with some scrapbook paper and glue." I got an immediate glare and a hushed voice, "Be careful! The artist is here in our office!" I said, "Oh. Ok." and walked away from it, but what I wanted to say was, "I'm pretty sure that's she's aware that her work is made of PAPER CIRCLES AND GLUE seeing as she's the one that actually CREATED THE ART!"

What say the Bitches, was I being inappropriate?

one of my books for feminist book group was called that

Heh. I *LOVE* that book. It's sitting on top of our stereo system right now. Emmett is safe from it because he generally refuses to look at any books that don't have baseball players, dogs or Star Wars characters on the covers, but I guess I should move it somewhere before Matilda learns to read.

authorial intent

OH NO YOU DIDN'T

Zenkitty, your thoughtful explanation of your use of 'crazy' is really interesting.

Thanks, I was afraid I'd sound like a long-winded jerk. You should have seen the unedited version.

But my mom won't even call Pussy from the Sopranos that.

My mother's nickname as a child was Puss or Pussy. They meant "kittycat", of course, and they were all blissfully unaware of any other meaning.

I just can't say the word "cunt". It sounds awful to my ears. That word will never be on my list to be reclaimed.

To the contrary, I think it's weak writing that can't come up with a different way of stating something.

Contrary all you like, you know exactly the kind of soft, watered down, timidly inoffensive, endlessly qualified language favored on the left that I'm talking about.

My point holds, I think. The bigger issue is that you cannot uproot words from their cultural history. erika's long running discussion of the issues around words like "disabled," "able-bodied," "lame," "crippled" indicates some of the problem. Trying to control the language is a way to try and control thinking (cf., Orwell) and people do resist and resent that attempt.

And it does create a kind of falsity. Wrapping lots of relentless positive uplift language around the "differently abled" doesn't build wheelchair ramps.

Back to the related discussion, I never use "gay" as a perjorative, but I might use it as a descriptor. (Waxed eyebrows on men, rhumba sleeves, jazz hands.)

"Cocksucker" is kind of an endearment at this point thanks to Deadwood.

I still use "lame." I didn't use to use "retarded" but now it's crept back into my vocabulary.

Language is such that "developmentally delayed" will convey the same thing eventually. Just as "special ed" started neutral and trended negative and gave us "riding the short bus."

People will always reach for the phrase that connotes, "You are incurably stupid."

I like it too...so I've softened my stance on it as The Ultimate Vulgarity/ Insult, though it's still hard to use. But I'm not that sensitive about language anymore(see tag) I guess it was five seasons of learning via The Wire, that "motherfucker" could also apply to a house or car as easily as a person...I couldn't be shocked every time. I don't say it that much, but it no longer has the freight it once had. For good or ill.ETA: People already/still say "sped", ftr.

Back to the related discussion, I never use "gay" as a perjorative, but I might use it as a descriptor. (Waxed eyebrows on men, rhumba sleeves, jazz hands.)

But if you use a term as a descriptor and someone says to you that they're offended by it, what would your reaction be? To explain to them why you think that using that term is important to the long-term health and vitality of language? Or would you say that your intent wasn't to offend and offer an apology?

To the contrary, I think it's weak writing that can't come up with a different way of stating something.

Contrary all you like, you know exactly the kind of soft, watered down, timidly inoffensive, endlessly qualified language favored on the left that I'm talking about.

It sounds to me like you're saying that it's not possible to re-word something, ever, without watering it down. And you know as well as I do that that is simply not true.

It's not a binary, with options being Bold Yet Described As Some As Offensive vs. Weak Ineffectual Mealy-Mouthed Pap. Implying that there are only 2 choices in writing is, again, WEAK.

And it does create a kind of falsity. Wrapping lots of relentless positive uplift language around the "differently abled" doesn't build wheelchair ramps.

If someone who was "differently abled" said to you that he/she was offended by your use of "lame," would you give them that spiel? t edit Or, what Jilli said.

"Cocksucker" is kind of an endearment at this point thanks to Deadwood.

Because the whole world watches Deadwood, right?

I've heard the same reasoning being given for "gay" and "lame." I have trouble finding fault with that parallel.

Yes, indeed, and I wish I had a better defense than "it doesn't mean that to me!". I don't use "gay" or "lame" as insulting adjectives, anyway, so it wouldn't apply to any situation I'd encounter in the real world, but the parallel is still there and is worth considering. (And here I am, considering it, but honestly, I'm not gonna stop referring to Glen Beck or myself the day before my period as crazy, and I'm more concerned with removing certain other words from my language.)

ILU2

I never use "gay" as a perjorative, but I might use it as a descriptor.

You know, still thinking about it, I don't do that either, unless I'm making a conscious choice to call something that. By which I mean, it doesn't come naturally to my lips. (Go on. Laugh.)

Wow, my language is lot more boring than I thought it was.

People will always reach for the phrase that connotes, "You are incurably stupid."

But there's just so much need for it!