It's a moo point!

---

I'm pretty pro-porn and anti-the porn industry as it stands.

That's one of the interesting things about seeing those interviews with female erotic filmmakers. They're not working in the porn industry per se, though they are making very sexually explicit films.

---

I'm on the same bench as Javachik and DaisyJane. I am a horrible friend. But! I have a year! And I am sticking by that etiquette!

WRT prostitution, I've seen a couple of docs on the Nevada industry. From what I understand, it is very regulated. Weekly doc visits, drug tests, etc. The brothels seem rather well respected business. And do not strike me as exploitative by any stretch of the imagination. So based on that, I would support legalized prostitution that is regulated, protects the workers, removes the stigma that pushes it to the shadows that opens the door for exploitation. But I will say, I have no clue how it really is. Doc's tend to have the rosy glasses that the producer wants on it.

---

I'm pretty pro-porn and anti-the porn industry as it stands.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. Huge fan of porn, not a fan of the industry, which means I am mostly restricted to written, vintage, and gay (not that there's not serious problematic exploitation in gay filmed porn, but when I was still watching filmed porn on a regular basis, gay porn seemed less ooky/had higher production values/was what my lesbian roommates owned and therefore what we had on rotation).

---

Miss Manners sats that the year thing is wrong, both in terms of time to send a gift and time for thank you notes. But, since I'm a slacker about gifts, I can't be hardcore about the thank you.

---

When you say you're against porn, do you mean because it's basically coming from that? Or just...in general?

The first one. It's the fucked-up industry and what it does to women that I have a problem with. I'm aware that there's another, non-industry kind that is coming from a different place. That's where my views diverge from those of other members of my org - I think a lot of my friends would say that they're against all porn. I'm not sure I totally have a handle on why. Although I do also think there's some porn where it's hard to know where the line fell - whether it was exploitative or not.

I'm sorry if I took a fun conversation and made it serious unnecessarily.

---

had higher production values

Ha, this is the major reason I don't care much for the video porn. What little I have seen seemed really poor quality, and rather unrealistic. Pictures, sure. But video, eh. I especially hate the bad sound and cheesey music.

---

What little I have seen seemed really poor quality, and rather unrealistic.

Wait, porn can be unrealistic?

---

I am totally against the way the porn industry acts in general, while having nothing against it in the abstact. At the same time, I wonder what the ratio of people harmed in the porn industry (as percent of those working specifically performing sexually or erotically) as opposed to say truck drivers. Cause there is a very high percent of drug use among truck drivers and a very high associated rate of health issues (kidney problems, back problems). I don't know anyone in contracting, especially in roofing over 40 with back problems. So while I'm no fan of the porn industry, I think there are plenty of other industries doing useful work that are just as harmful. I think the issue here is not porn, but workers rights, which tend to have weak protection in general.

Prostitution is another issue. Again I suppose there is a difference between the abstract and practice. But prostitutes really do face more health and safety issues than other professions, and that includes lots of places where prostitution is legal. Also there is the question as Seska says of how many are really there voluntarily, both in the sense of "you have this debt and we'll shoot you or turn you in to immigration if you leave" and in the sense of deliberately addicting people to drugs. Still we have a labor conference every year in Olympia, (which may not happen anymore). And there were representatives of the sex workers Union there who pointed out that a lot of what is wrong in prostitution is a result of how they are treated even where it is legal. For example in Britain prostitution is legal. But if a bunch of prostitutes got together and formed a co-op and rented a building to have a safe place, that would be keeping a bawdy house and illegal. And if they hired someone to screen clients or a bodyguard, unless it was handled very carefully, the screener or bodyguard would be legally guilty of pimping since they would be living on the earnings of prostitutes. And most places that make prostitution legal require special registration and impose special screenings. Which means, among other things that if you were a prostitute for a while and register, it would be on the record future employers could check forever. In short what I don't think has every been tried is true decriminalization, where prostitutes have the same rights as any other worker, plus protection from exploitation unique to their field just as railroad workers have special worker protections from hazards unique to their field.

Of course that would make more sense in a world where work protections are actually enforced. (Massey, I'm looking at you.)

Also:

I think porn is fine but unfortunately, the industry is riddled with abuse and the young people (mostly women) that are being exploited outnumber the women who are in control of their bodies, their lives and careers.

I think sadly, that is true of many industries. I think it may be inherent in capitalism, which is why I'm a blankety blank socialist, even though in the U.S. my political viewpoint is outnumbered by people who claim to have had personal encounters with aliens from beyond the this solar system. It may be outnumbered by people who personally claim to have been anally probed by such aliens.

---

I defer to Miss Manners...but I think a late thank you is better than no thank you at all, so I'll still send them. Honestly, part of it is that I didn't want to write them all myself, and Drew has been out of town most of the last six months. Not an excuse, but an explanation. Anyway, will soon be a non-issue since I plan to take care of it this week.

I have nothing to add about porn. I tend to be pro-porn but anti-industry, as many of you seem to be.

---