This must be what going mad feels like.

Simon ,'Jaynestown'


Spike's Bitches 45: That sure as hell wasn't in the brochure.  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Typo Boy - Jul 16, 2010 10:07:40 am PDT #25747 of 30000
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I am totally against the way the porn industry acts in general, while having nothing against it in the abstact. At the same time, I wonder what the ratio of people harmed in the porn industry (as percent of those working specifically performing sexually or erotically) as opposed to say truck drivers. Cause there is a very high percent of drug use among truck drivers and a very high associated rate of health issues (kidney problems, back problems). I don't know anyone in contracting, especially in roofing over 40 with back problems. So while I'm no fan of the porn industry, I think there are plenty of other industries doing useful work that are just as harmful. I think the issue here is not porn, but workers rights, which tend to have weak protection in general.

Prostitution is another issue. Again I suppose there is a difference between the abstract and practice. But prostitutes really do face more health and safety issues than other professions, and that includes lots of places where prostitution is legal. Also there is the question as Seska says of how many are really there voluntarily, both in the sense of "you have this debt and we'll shoot you or turn you in to immigration if you leave" and in the sense of deliberately addicting people to drugs. Still we have a labor conference every year in Olympia, (which may not happen anymore). And there were representatives of the sex workers Union there who pointed out that a lot of what is wrong in prostitution is a result of how they are treated even where it is legal. For example in Britain prostitution is legal. But if a bunch of prostitutes got together and formed a co-op and rented a building to have a safe place, that would be keeping a bawdy house and illegal. And if they hired someone to screen clients or a bodyguard, unless it was handled very carefully, the screener or bodyguard would be legally guilty of pimping since they would be living on the earnings of prostitutes. And most places that make prostitution legal require special registration and impose special screenings. Which means, among other things that if you were a prostitute for a while and register, it would be on the record future employers could check forever. In short what I don't think has every been tried is true decriminalization, where prostitutes have the same rights as any other worker, plus protection from exploitation unique to their field just as railroad workers have special worker protections from hazards unique to their field.

Of course that would make more sense in a world where work protections are actually enforced. (Massey, I'm looking at you.)

Also:

I think porn is fine but unfortunately, the industry is riddled with abuse and the young people (mostly women) that are being exploited outnumber the women who are in control of their bodies, their lives and careers.

I think sadly, that is true of many industries. I think it may be inherent in capitalism, which is why I'm a blankety blank socialist, even though in the U.S. my political viewpoint is outnumbered by people who claim to have had personal encounters with aliens from beyond the this solar system. It may be outnumbered by people who personally claim to have been anally probed by such aliens.


Pix - Jul 16, 2010 10:12:08 am PDT #25748 of 30000
The status is NOT quo.

I defer to Miss Manners...but I think a late thank you is better than no thank you at all, so I'll still send them. Honestly, part of it is that I didn't want to write them all myself, and Drew has been out of town most of the last six months. Not an excuse, but an explanation. Anyway, will soon be a non-issue since I plan to take care of it this week.

I have nothing to add about porn. I tend to be pro-porn but anti-industry, as many of you seem to be.


smonster - Jul 16, 2010 10:23:31 am PDT #25749 of 30000
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.

I'm sorry if I took a fun conversation and made it serious unnecessarily.

I think this is Buffista Apology #24. (also, no. not imho, anyways)


SailAweigh - Jul 16, 2010 10:48:22 am PDT #25750 of 30000
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

I, for one, have throroughly enjoyed following along. Work was way to busy yesterday for me to chime in, but I have to agree with the pr0n-yay, industry-no. I'm at work or I'd link to one of my favorite tumblrs, sex is not the enemy. Gorgeous pictures, explicit and not, but what comes through is the fact that all these people are there willingly and enjoying the hell out of themselves. It's beautiful.

I think what I need, though, is a clear line between erotica and pr0n. What makes the difference? It's something I've never really thought about before and I'm curious to hear what others have to say. Is there a legal definition? Is it, again, in the eye of the beholder? Does it have to do with consent issues?


Aims - Jul 16, 2010 10:49:24 am PDT #25751 of 30000
Shit's all sorts of different now.

erotica and pr0n.

Chicken and feathers. Something.


amych - Jul 16, 2010 10:50:06 am PDT #25752 of 30000
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

I always figure erotica = that which is classy enough for my tastes.


Aims - Jul 16, 2010 10:51:09 am PDT #25753 of 30000
Shit's all sorts of different now.

It seems like erotica charges more for internet access than porn.

I've heard.


Volans - Jul 16, 2010 10:52:53 am PDT #25754 of 30000
move out and draw fire

is a clear line between erotica and pr0n

This may be Buffista conversation #138.


tommyrot - Jul 16, 2010 10:55:32 am PDT #25755 of 30000
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Maybe pr0n is just to get you horny/help you get off, and while erotica can do that too, it appeals to other parts of one's brain as well?

Or maybe erotica is more artsy-fartsy....


tommyrot - Jul 16, 2010 10:57:28 am PDT #25756 of 30000
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Actually, isn't the legal definition of pornography "an appeal to prurient interest" that lacks any other redeeming feature?

eta: Or is that the definition of obscenity rather than pornography?