And I'm not trying to be contentious, or split hairs, or be all Look At Me I'm So Deviant.

Defining what we do and what it means is *really* important to me. So we talk about this a lot. That's why I'm wondering about your (and other people's) definitions.

I'm getting the impression that Teppy is wanting to use words as precision tools, while all around people are using them like Nerf balls, and lobbing them every which way.

Fay, all the ~ma for safety for you and The Cat Daniel, and much ~ma for peace.

(I've had some interesting conversations with people during which I've realised that what they think of as extremely unusual and weird, I think of as a bit of a dull evening really.)

Yes, exactly. "Japanese bondage *again*?"

Y'all, I sure wouldn't call them vanilla.

Well, no, but I feel there's some real estate between "vanilla" and "kinky". A sort of "crotchless panties" zone.

(Metal hurts. Do not want.)

This point bears repeating. Handcuffs are painful.

How do you determine "legitimate"?

It's never occurred to me to define that. If it works for all partners and no one's getting hurt*, it's all good.

Is anyone else fantasizing about putting together a geeky A-Team, stealing some choppers, storming into Bangkok, grabbing Fay and Daniel, and getting out? I'm not going to be able to relax until I know they're safe.

eta *for all values of "hurt" that equal "do not want".

Faylove, keep yourself and Cat safe as possible. You have many good thoughts bent your way from here.

Seska, the house is really nice--so many lovely possibilities to inflictimpress your own personalities inside and out.

Sass is a winning little salesbeing, isn't she? I'd buy what she's selling.

Nothing to add to the handcuffs discussion, except an emphatic nod to leather, rather than metal or rope. Burns.

Favorite application of peanut butter is on tart, crisp apple slices. Got celery or banana beat all to hell.

How do you determine "legitimate"?

Acceptable by the narrow circle of friends and people I give a fuck (no pun) about their opinions. Yes, it's that easy.

Steph, I do anthropology. Which means that I totally accept your definition to reality - and moreover, beacuse you're writing here, in my virtual "safe place". Hence the "it's legitimate". As for kinky? Well, if kinky is what other people think of your sexual interests and turn ons, sure. I just don't see why it has to do with anything, but messing with cultural concepts of what's "right" and "wrong".

Let's put it in a non-sexual context, for the sake of the argument: the fact that I actually read the articles for my classes, by the standards of most of my fellow students, is kinky. Me? I see it as legitimate.

Favorite application of peanut butter is on tart, crisp apple slices.

oooh yeah. nom.

Is anyone else fantasizing about putting together a geeky A-Team, stealing some choppers, storming into Bangkok, grabbing Fay and Daniel, and getting out? I'm not going to be able to relax until I know they're safe.

Oh, yes.

Teppy is wanting to use words as precision tools

Well, of course. What words mean *matters*.

How do you determine "legitimate"?

It's never occurred to me to define that. If it works for all partners and no one's getting hurt, it's all good.

I read Shir's comment as something that has a "legitimate" use = "not kinky." And I'm curious about that, because, again with the precision.

I read Shir's comment as something that has a "legitimate" use = "not kinky." And I'm curious about that, because, again with the precision.

I adore and appreciate your determination to precision, and hope my response cleared things up.

Though, we're Buffistas, so what are the odds for that.

Well, if kinky is what other people think of your sexual interests and turn ons, sure. I just don't see why it has to do with anything

Because the meaning of what we do matters.