Toddson , summing us up in F2F5:

ah, the Buffistas ... herding cats with spreadsheets

Brenda m, keeping it real. think there is a level of frustration with both white allies wanting, often subconsciously, to walk in and take over, and also with white fragility, that you have to read in to these interactions. Similarly to how women are often tasked with both doing their own part and to be emotional caretakers of men in discussions of sexism.

White people, even the most well meaning and genuine allies, are frequently just not that good at letting someone else take center stage. (Hell, look at that language I just used - letting. Maybe better to say "not that good at recognizing that someone not them belongs center stage".) So well-meaning ally becomes something that actually drains some energy and requires tending and feeding and why?

There are resources out there with recommendations for how white people can be allies in a way that doesn't take roles or energy from the people actually impacted. Or that can be even more effective - is a white face at a BLM demonstration more or less effective than a white person learning to recognize when and how to push back on their families and (mostly white) communities when they see racist or otherwise problematic behaviors?

More political than I like to get here, but bottom line, I think as people who want to be genuine allies, we need to be okay with being made uncomfortable and with not being a priority once in a while, and find our own channels.

ETA: I was heartbroken when at about age 18 or 19 I had a chance to meet Betty Shabazz and got smacked down for turning the conversation to what white people could do to help. It took me a long time to really get what she meant, and absorb it. edited by brenda m on Sep 3, 2015 2:14:15 pm P

In Natter:

sarameg - Let me share with you all a disturbing occurrence:

The moment you realize that the gentleman who is wearing the ittybitty flame-emblazoned speedo and standing on the deck of the pool doing post-swim hip rolls and thrusts (and yes, as lewd looking as it sounds,) is a coworker. Not one you've worked with, but still.

Now magnify this terrible reality with the dawning realization that without the benefit of foggy googles, it is also evident that his speedo has hit a vaguely translucent stage in full illumination of the setting sun.

I hope I NEVER have to work with him. My first words might be " you need a new swimsuit!"

billytea - The Translucent Speedos would however be an excellent name for a college rock band.

The Foggy Googles would be an excellent name for any band.

amych - FLAME. EMBLAZONED. TRANSLUCENT. SPEEDOS?

shrift - I'm cackling uncontrollably at this rancid Maraschino cherry atop a Nope Nope Nope! sundae.

sarameg - I'm reeling.

brenda m - That's not making it better, shrift.

aurelia - Turn that into a single sentence, sarameg, and you've got a Bulwer-Lytton contender.

billytea - I'm impressed that this guy apparently thinks the message "My crotch is on fire" is more likely to score him some woman's phone number rather than directions to the nearest clinic.

sarameg - I suspect it is more he just doesn't give a shit. Audience was largely swim lesson kids and people doing laps. Just no self awareness. (Color me shocked, from my workplace.)

Burrell - oh. dear. sarameg. There is no turning back.

shrift - Based on his flame-emblazoned Speedo, I didn't think he'd be a good candidate for a "look at your life, look at your choices" intervention.

Connie Neil - He'd probably puff out his chest and say "Yeah, my choices rock!" I admire that kind of chutzpah.

billytea - As long as it's just his chest he's puffing out, you're getting off lightly.

Connie Neil - That thought occurred to me.

shrift in Natter:

Oh, man. I have fallen down a NSFW rabbit hole.

...that's what she said.

Wildlife discussion in Natter

Toddson

Paging billy t! Australia has a new death adder. Got bored with the old ones?

Connie Neil

You have to worry when Australia stops messing around and says flat out "This shit will kill you."

-t

I thought that was what Australia was saying all the time.

billytea

Yes. Yes we are.

Toddson

There are two kinds of trees that will kill you - the red gum tree that drops heavy branches with no warning and the ... banya (?) pine that drops 22 kilo pinecones on you.

billytea

[red gum] Also called the widowmaker, here. Australia is like unto Season 4 of 24, where the villain induces a meltdown in all of America's 100 nuclear power plants as a decoy to distract attention from his real plan. So too, our venomous fauna is really just there to ensure no one pays attention to the trees. Everyone freaks out about a little snake, while it's just The Happening down here 24/7.

Connie Neil

You know you're not doing any favors for the Australian Tourism Board's work.

billytea

<prepares ransom note>

DeeR AuSTraliAn tOURisM BOarD:

SenD mE oNe mILlyoN dOLlarz or i tELL eVRywuN aBouT tHE TREEZ.

Hugs!

(it's the "Hugs!" that makes it art.)

Zenkitty gets all our Natter votes:

A Pig? Amateur. Try Screwing With the Animals on the Hill. Vote Zenkitty For Prime Minister of America.

Talk About a Bipartisan Divide, Check Out This Cleavage! Vote Zen for Queen of America.

Evil Gets Shit Done! Vote Zenkitty for Dictator for Life and Never Have to Think About Politics Again.

Dropping the mic in Natter:

Strix: I have a question that I don't think that I could ask anywhere else but here. Ok, the phrase balls of steel, I've often translated it to ovaries of steel or gonads of steel, I've used adamantium or titanium. You get the gist.

However I, and other people, no longer possess or never had gonads so here's my quandary -- what phraseology can I use that is similar to that phrase which doesn't reference my no longer existent gonads?

I'm certainly not offended by my gonad-free existence. I certainly am NOT upset if someone references gonads, ovaries or balls of steel, whatever. It's just a curious thought that I cannot get out of my head. I can't come up with a really good answer.

msbelle-Rebecca: Vagina of Vibranium

In response to the beginning of the prior post, as an Audio Engineer, I feel compelled to share this public service annoucement:

[link]

working my way through ita's thread (I have to take it small doses with a healthy side of wine) I found this post from way back in January that I have to immortalize...

Toddson - Jan 15, 2015

If life imitated art - as it should - ita's spirit would have passed into her laptop and then into the internet. I'd like to think of her whooshing through the tubes and pipes, maybe correcting some errant code. And taking joy in killing malware with her pinky.