Anyone who has ever had their voice stifled should empathize with Loki.
I suppose if I disagree I never had my voice stifled enough? Because the point at which you take resentment at being shut up and make it into a problem that kills other people, you've lost my empathy. And I don't think being yelled over more as a kid would be what pushed me over that line.
I know characters in movies are supposed to have more manifest reactions that we can manage in our day to day life, but I believe there's a quantum leap that's been made by Loki that can't be smoothed over with some sweaty brother-loving (because that's precisely where the feels go next on my dash) and that I just can't follow because I don't want to hurt anyone because of it, not least people who I don't even know.
Anyone who has ever had their voice stifled should empathize with Loki.
I didn't really see where Loki had his voice stifled. Odin even told them that they were both born to be kings. Granted, Odin knew Loki was born to be king of the Jotun, but still, given *strictly* what we see in the movies, I didn't think that Loki was stifled or belittled or devalued, especially by Odin and Frigga. And Thor, frankly.
I didn't really see where Loki had his voice stifled.
It's literalized at the end with him wearing the gag.
Why did they gag Loki anyway? Could he otherwise cast spells? Or was everyone just sick of his yapping?
It's literalized at the end with him wearing the gag.
That doesn't retroactively put it in the plot, though.
If that was a thrust of his issue, I found it weak. I don't think it's an empathetic reason to go off the deep end (not that villains have to be empathetic--just understandable is fine, and I thought he was that in Thor but not Avengers), and I don't think as shown it was extreme enough anyway.
Why did they gag Loki anyway?
Because he has a dangerous mouth. He's the Iago of the Gods, always spreading dissension.
I am FINALLY seeing Avengers! All it took was flying to Chicago for the weekend and leaving the kids at home with my parents.
Because the point at which you take resentment at being shut up and make it into a problem that kills other people, you've lost my empathy.
Well, I have to admit, it never made me want to kill.
I'm curious, though. How many people here were fans of Spike? Especially in season 2? That liked "evil" Spike best and bemoaned the chip and the soul. Overlook the way some writers were sympathetic to him and some disliked him. Just the fact he was evil and a killer, but you still liked him. Why did you like him? He was conniving, a liar, a killer, ruthless, and also completely incompetent in pulling off his overcomplicated schemes.
Eh, I'm not going to change any minds. I don't want to. I was just trying to give some insight from another point of view. More from Loki's point of view than from Thor's, Odin's or Frigga's. I'm sure if you had asked either of my brothers if they did that to me, they would tell you it never happened. Thor is the hero of the story and we're seeing the movie from his point of view.
It's literalized at the end with him wearing the gag.
That doesn't retroactively put it in the plot, though.
This. I truly don't see where in Thor or Avengers (until the literal gag) Loki was stifled. Using those 2 movies as the text (i.e., not comics, not Norse mythology [Tim REALLY wants a movie with woman!Loki...no surprise there]), I don't see Loki being stifled, oppressed, cast aside, etc.
How many people here were fans of Spike?
I don't need any inherent correlation between "fans of" and "empathise with", though.
