Why did they gag Loki anyway?

Because he has a dangerous mouth. He's the Iago of the Gods, always spreading dissension.

I am FINALLY seeing Avengers! All it took was flying to Chicago for the weekend and leaving the kids at home with my parents.

Because the point at which you take resentment at being shut up and make it into a problem that kills other people, you've lost my empathy.

Well, I have to admit, it never made me want to kill.

I'm curious, though. How many people here were fans of Spike? Especially in season 2? That liked "evil" Spike best and bemoaned the chip and the soul. Overlook the way some writers were sympathetic to him and some disliked him. Just the fact he was evil and a killer, but you still liked him. Why did you like him? He was conniving, a liar, a killer, ruthless, and also completely incompetent in pulling off his overcomplicated schemes.

Eh, I'm not going to change any minds. I don't want to. I was just trying to give some insight from another point of view. More from Loki's point of view than from Thor's, Odin's or Frigga's. I'm sure if you had asked either of my brothers if they did that to me, they would tell you it never happened. Thor is the hero of the story and we're seeing the movie from his point of view.

It's literalized at the end with him wearing the gag.

That doesn't retroactively put it in the plot, though.

This. I truly don't see where in Thor or Avengers (until the literal gag) Loki was stifled. Using those 2 movies as the text (i.e., not comics, not Norse mythology [Tim REALLY wants a movie with woman!Loki...no surprise there]), I don't see Loki being stifled, oppressed, cast aside, etc.

How many people here were fans of Spike?

I don't need any inherent correlation between "fans of" and "empathise with", though.

I didn't think Spike was a misunderstood woobie. Hot and evil, but no woobie.

Hot and evil, but no woobie.

Not is season 2, for sure. But he did get plenty woobified later. And I think that's where a lot of folks here lost interest in him. Like Buffy, you like your villains death-ray-destroy-Metropolis evil, without any hint of sentimentality.

I don't need any inherent correlation between "fans of" and "empathise with", though.

I don't think there has to be, but I think there often is for many fans. Which is why your dash is so covered in Loki. We're all very sentimental.

I posed the questions of "what was his motivation/plan" on IO9, and pretty much no two people had the same answer.

That's surprising to me. I haven't seen Thor and I've only seen Avengers once (so far), but "conquer the earth and enslave humanity" seems pretty obvious. Since that's what he's says he's gonna do.

"what was his motivation/plan"

I think having seen Thor is actually a little necessary for that. Joss did a good job with showing the "conquer the earth and enslave humanity", but I think Thor shows more to his motivation. I'll leave you with something that was reposted by Fay, someone else's words, but I feel explains a lot for those of us who are Loki fans: [link]

Loki wasn't really the one in control in The Avengers. He was causing all the havoc and mischief and wanted to be king and get back at Thor. But the leader (the Other?) had some kind of control over Loki.

He threatened to hurt Loki so badly that pain would feel sweet.

I don't know if that added to Loki's anger and resentment. But he can't even attempt to take over the Earth and be a king without relying on someone else and being at their mercy.

I haven't seen Thor in awhile, but I think Loki resented being the second son. He wanted to be King and even if he was Odin's son that was never going to happen with Thor around. Finding out he was adopted just magnified all of that.