I'm gonna post this before I catch up. It's just my reaction so far. I haven't read a lot, and my slant may change once I do.

I think all the actors acted the hell out of the script. I loved them all. And I loved the impala getting the spotlight, and having a role in destiny. Again.

I'm not a fan of predestination, so I was hoping for a subverting of "destiny", and was disappointed. I don't think Dean's going to be happy, or make Lisa or Ben happy, as long as he attempts to keep his promise to Sam. I don't know who's under that streetlight. Lots of people have said if this had been the series rather than the season finale that Sam would not have been there, that his story would be over. If that was true, I would have felt the worst betrayal I've experienced (on film) since Wash's death.

I see the narrative choices and the reasons for them. I just don't share or take any comfort in thoughts of predetermined fate. Angel summed up my philosophy--if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do--and if it's all set in stone beforehand, then life is completely futile and pointless. So, I choose to believe destiny can be fought, and changed. That was the show I thought I'd been watching for five years.

Guess I was proved wrong.

Beverly why wasn't destiny subverted? Is it the degree to which it wasn't subverted that is at issue?

I'm not a fan of predestination, so I was hoping for a subverting of "destiny", and was disappointed. I don't think Dean's going to be happy, or make Lisa or Ben happy, as long as he attempts to keep his promise to Sam. I don't know who's under that streetlight. Lots of people have said if this had been the series rather than the season finale that Sam would not have been there, that his story would be over. If that was true, I would have felt the worst betrayal I've experienced (on film) since Wash's death.

But they did subvert destiny. It was just epically hard to do so, and came at a cost.

I think Sam did choose. I think he did fight his destiny for years, even before he knew what it was, by carving out his own goals and desires. And I think last night he made a conscious choice to do what he thought was best. He may have been fated to be Lucifer's vessel, but he did it for his own reasons, consciously, unlike, say, Ava and Jake, who totally caved to Azazel, seduced by the power, unwilling to see if they could stand up to him.

Stories have endings. Sometimes they're not idyllic, but I'm okay with that if they're satisfying, if they CONCLUDE A STORY and show the character's journey to that point logically and dramatically and compellingly. And if the series had ended last night, I have to say I would have been all right with it. Sam made a heroic choice to SAVE THE WORLD (or die trying) and it might have cost him and Dean a hell of a lot, but I applaud it.

I think they had their heaven, as flawed and messy and confusing as it was, in their brotherhood, and the journey they made together.

Frell. Long response, typed in posting box rather than notepad, b.org ate it. Frack.

Thanks for the links. Missyjack's meta eased the sting a little by emphasizing choices made within unchangeable destiny. Refur's coda offers a bit more hope than a Sam-shape standing beneath a sparking streetlight.

My inability to make peace with 5.22 is founded in perhaps a futile hope that destiny can be changed. That we don't have to stand on the square some unseen hand nudges us toward, that we can in fact move the opposite direction, even off the board, if we're smart enough and willing to take risks and work hard. Instead of being the best possible knight to ever grace a chessboard, you know?

It's a basic philosophy disagreement. I wanted there to be a way to avert the apocalypse (and after BtVS and SPN, I never want to hear that word again unless there is literally fire raining from the skies) without Sam required to be Lucifer's vessel and carry him back into his cage. I wanted the Winchesters to give god the finger and say, No, we don't. This is your mess, you clean it up, don't put that on us.

Yes, they were both heroes. Yes, they were true to themselves. And Sam's in hell and Dean's in hell, and really, what the hell?

I hope that there would have been some other resolution had this been the series finale, because the crap they've each and both been through in the last five years--this is the payoff? This is the peace when they're done? I'd hope this ending was the setup for S6, instead, and that I can look forward to a happier resolution by 6.22.

They were destined to be Lucifer and Michael's vessels and act out the battle that would wipe out most of the earth's population.

That didn't happen. Dean plainly didn't say yes, and even more importantly, Sam said yes and flipped Lucifer the bird, because the power of love did win the day.

It wasn't destined for the earth to come out of it mostly unscathed. But it did, because Sam was that strong, and because Dean wouldn't let him be.

It absolutely mattered what they did, and who they were. Look at poor Adam! I hope that whatever force (God, probably) got Castiel and Sam out of their jam put him back in heaven and maybe he finds his mother. But he didn't have what Sam and Dean had, and he wasn't able to stand up to the powerful forces arrayed against humanity.

I think the Lisa thing is wrong, but I totally get why both of them think it's right, so I don't mind Sam extracting the promise and Dean following through. I will be disappointed if Show thinks it's right, though.

eta:

And Sam's in hell and Dean's in hell, and really, what the hell?

Sam's in Hell? Who do you think is under the streetlight, then? I thought JP did a good job of differentiating between Lucifer and Sam, and I thought I saw Sam. A different Sam, but Sam there.

Dean's seeking an end to his misery, and in the wrong place. Time enough to get that resolved. It didn't need a bow on it at the end of S5. I wouldn't have expected it--it doesn't jibe with the season enders that have preceded it.

Yes, they were heroes, I don't deny that. Yes, they made choices within the destiny they were given.

What ita said.

I absolutely saw destiny subverted. I'm okay narratively with where they left it particularly with another season coming, but regarding Dean and Lisa

I will be disappointed if Show thinks it's right, though.

This. And knowing our writers I think it's gonna go pear-shaped somehow or other, Lisa and Dean that is, not narratively.

though sadly she didn't vanish

you don't ever lie.

That didn't happen. Dean plainly didn't say yes, and even more importantly, Sam said yes and flipped Lucifer the bird, because the power of love did win the day

YELLOW CRAYON!