I remember that conversation actually, but the way Plei phrased it, I wasn't sure. I am completely distracted today, though. And not with pretty angsty boys who fight demons, either, sadly.

I think I stopped watching The 4400 before she showed up, because people have mentioned her being on the show and I don't remember it at all.

For the record, I may have wish we'd gotten to see more of Ellen and Jo, but their characters as they were written, and as they died, were pure win for me. Abandon All Hope was the hardest this show has ever made me cry.

That's how I feel Amy. Honestly I go back and forth on if I love Ellen or Mary more. Mary pulled ahead once I found out that she was a hunter as well. However, Ellen was definitely one of my favorites and I would have watched the Ellen Harvelle show. I had to lose her at some point though and this was a brave death.

I have to say, I quit SPN for genderfail, but it was a while ago, so I have no opinion about Ellen & Jo's deaths, other than, SAD! But I think at the time I saw some of the racefail that ita didn't consider problematic. For me, though, it was cumulative. I probably wouldn't have bristled at perceived racefail if I weren't also bristling at genderfail.

The genderfails for me were twofold: oversexualising female victims, and caving to fangirl aversion to regular female characters. But neither, obviously, enough to overcome my love for the show. And the women I like, I like a lot. Ellen and Mary and Pamela and Missouri rock. Meg, as played by Nikki Aycox was pretty cool too. Ruby, as played by Katie Cassidy, I kinda liked. But Ruby in general makes me all overprotective of Sam, so it's hard for me to appreciate her with any sort of sanity.

I still don't like Bela as written though.

Yeah, Bela was a deliberate omission for me. I can't work out how to fix her, but I damned well could suggest fixing the boys' reactions to her. SHE SHOT SAM. STOP BEING SO NOT UNNICE TO HER.

I loved Lauren Cohan, and I think she had great onscreen chemistry with JA's Dean. I wish they could have created a better character for her, or at least served her character better. Bela never actually fit into the Winchesters' world, and while that was supposed to be part of the appeal of her character for the audience--while providing girly eye candy and a bit of the glitz most if not all other CW shows have and the CW seems to require--it never felt organic to the show. The sheer clunkiness did her character in, I think. ETA: Well, along with the whole SHE SHOT SAM thing, that is.

I didn't mind Bela, although they wrote her with a lot of holes. Even her introduction made no sense -- how was she supposed to know they were eating at Biggerson's in time to grab a wig and a uniform and pretend to be a waitress?

I have no problem with her being a bitch, or doing what she did -- it's sort of surprising we haven't seen more people profiting off the supernatural instead of just being victimized by it.

And while I don't love that she apparently killed her parents because she was a victim of sexual abuse, I can't think of a lot of other reasons for a fifteen- or sixteen-year-old girl to want her parents dead and remain remotely sympathetic.

And while I don't love that she apparently killed her parents because she was a victim of sexual abuse, I can't think of a lot of other reasons for a fifteen- or sixteen-year-old girl to want her parents dead and remain remotely sympathetic.

Non-sexual abuse. I mean, Max wasn't molested.

Abuse in general is pretty cliched, though.

Not that it's not horrific, of course. And it happens, so.