Given how Castiel and Dean's relationship has been fanonized, I imagine if the actor had been a woman, the fan vibe would have been a whole different thing

Yeah, totally.

Most of the other fan reaction I read is on TWOP, and they ghettoize their various preferences/prejudices, but the degree of interference there seems to be interpreted that Castiel brings to the Sam and Dean relationship is pretty strong. You'd think Sam spent more than two episodes away and Castiel and Dean rode off into the sunset together, for good or for ill.

My god, if Castiel had been a she, it would be crazy times.

I know Kripke panders to fan reaction, but at the same time I think he can't win for losing no matter what he does.

Yes, this. I still think there should be a strong woman left in their quiver (Pamela!) but I can't accuse him of fridging, for instance.

I hate the idea that black people can't be evil and black people can't die--on a show full of evil dying people.

What pinged me wrong in S2 was that all the recurring human antagonists were black males. Now, granted, they don't have a lot of recurring allies, period, and I don't want to give up any of the guys they cast, because they're awesome and I'm greedy, but when it was pinging *PETE* as unbalanced (he and Jilli watched S2 in a compressed timeframe), then it seems that maybe, just maybe, the balance is off.

Having the betrayer angel also cast as an imposing black guy? Meh. No matter how awesome the actor is.

(Clearly, the solution to this is to have more black people in more varied speaking roles whenever they're in larger cities, like SF or LA. I mean, they're in small towns often, but midsized to large ones at least as often. Oh, and to make Rufus recurring.)

Psych manages to do a good job of that, FWIW.

What pinged me wrong in S2 was that all the recurring human antagonists were black males

Is that more than Gordon and Henriksen?

Would it have been better if Gordon didn't recur, like was originally intended?

Having the betrayer angel also cast as an imposing black guy? Meh. No matter how awesome the actor is.

But if Zachariah was black, people (not saying you) would have complained too. He's mean to the boys. People were complaining Rafael was black.

Clearly, the solution to this is to have more black people in more varied speaking roles whenever they're in larger cities

Thing is, casting this is apparently not easy. The Vancouver casting pool for small roles seems to be overwhelmingly white. Colin's vocally bitter about this.

Does Psych have any recurring characters not related to Gus that aren't white? And Shawn doesn't count. Sarah Shahi aside (and she's an LA casting, not a local), I've always parsed it as pretty whitebread.

Wasn't Castiel originally intended to appear in no more than 5 episodes, until Misha Collins and SPN fandom fell in love with each other? I thought that character was only beefed up to regular sidekick status after viewer reaction to the actor took off into the stratosphere.

Is that more than Gordon and Henriksen?

I loosely define recurring as "in more than one episode" which loops in Jake as well.

Does Psych have any recurring characters not related to Gus that aren't white? And Shawn doesn't count. Sarah Shahi aside (and she's an LA casting, not a local), I've always parsed it as pretty whitebread.

Not recurrings (other than Buzz and Abigail, there haven't been a lot of recurring characters who aren't either Shawn or Gus's family members), but I've noticed more casting diversity, period. It's something that's stood out when watching it. Of course, they've also got a much more racially diverse cast of writers than most shows, which is probably the key.

Wasn't Castiel originally intended to appear in no more than 5 episodes

I seem to remember that, from Misha talking about his choice to speak so low for the character.

I loosely define recurring as "in more than one episode" which loops in Jake as well.

Then we need to at the very least add Ava. Or was she antagonistic in too few episodes?

The quick answer to your dilemma is to not have cast black guys in those roles, which I will always disagree with. Aldis was nothing special as Jake, but I make grabby hands at the other two. Because casting black guys in more major roles doesn't fix things, because they will die or menace people, while continuing to not be Bobby or Castiel.

The non-white people on Psych not named Shahi fail to stick in my head, but maybe it's because it's not really a show I find memorable. I can only remember the stuntier casting, and that's all white, except for Gus's family. And a priest, maybe?

Eureka has a diverse main cast, but when it comes to specifically casting relatives of non-white characters, they have problems. And when they decide to go local for open ethnicity roles, Colin says that's equivalent to going white.

Then we need to at the very least add Ava. Or was she antagonistic in too few episodes?

Too few. Like Victor's an ally in too few. Sadly. I mean, I'm not one to fuss too much over killing on this show. Ellen and Jo? Good deaths. So I, personally, would be peachykeenfine with a non-white human ally who eventually bites it as all their allies do. Some wouldn't, but, you know, doesn't make them right.

The quick answer to your dilemma is to not have cast black guys in those roles, which I will always disagree with. Aldis was nothing special as Jake, but I make grabby hands at the other two. Because casting black guys in more major roles doesn't fix things, because they will die or menace people, while continuing to not be Bobby or Castiel.

The apparent writer vision for Jake was for an all-American, Matt Damon type, so outside of the text, I think it's flipping AWESOME that they cast Aldis there.

But, to break the pattern, I suppose some more Damonish dude would have been better. (Actually, looking at some of the more explicit Dean parallels that they have with Jake, in speech patterns, being the one of the special kids who's the muscle, the caretaking part for his family, it might have been more *effective* to cast someone visually similar to Ackles there.)

I like the idea of, say, swapping Rufus with Bobby in terms of casting. Partly because, long before Rufus showed up on the scene, that was my dream casting for a non-white Bobby.

The non-white people on Psych not named Shahi fail to stick in my head, but maybe it's because it's not really a show I find memorable. I can only remember the stuntier casting, and that's all white, except for Gus's family. And a priest, maybe?

Sendhil Ramamurthy, Nicole Lyn (Hill's RL wife), Kerry Washington, just off the top of my head.

Sendhil Ramamurthy, Nicole Lyn (Hill's RL wife), Kerry Washington, just off the top of my head.

So big names, then, just not stunty enough (other than Sendhil) to capture my flighty Psych memory.

I like the idea of, say, swapping Rufus with Bobby in terms of casting

I love Jim Beaver, but Steven Williams would rock Bobby too.

So basically we got more Gordon because the actor did a good job, and Jake was envisioned white and cast black.

And if we'd had a black Bobby the crippling would have been racefail.

The big gap with black guys is intermediary characters...I think the tier-below-Bobby-and-Castiel is well populated and well acted.

And if we'd had a black Bobby the crippling would have been racefail.

In the same way that Jo and Ellen are considered genderfail by some. I mean, I wouldn't have, but there's no pleasing everyone.

And, yeah. Steven Williams as Bobby? Man. I'd have been over the moon, but that's a crush that dates back to the 80s.

You mean Ellen and Jo's deaths are considered genderfail by some?

I find it hard to see the meta in casting sometimes because if I respond to the character, if it feels natural and well-played, then that actor *is* that character for me.

I think Cassie was one that didn't work, but it didn't have to do with her race, just the fact that she didn't seem at all Dean's type. And the chemistry just wasn't there.