Don't forget Missouri.

Must not forget her!

I'm thinking it's the same guy.

That's less creepy than the type thing, though Uriel and creepy...

Prettiest monster chow, ever.

Most wasted pretty monster chow, for sure. Too brief an appearance.

I know that SPN gets a lot of guff for racial issues, but I have to say I don't totally get it. I think they cast some excellent black actors (Cassie totally excepted, damnit, and she was the only role that had to had to be black, right?), and I understand from Colin that the Vancouver black talent pool isn't that deep, which means you're paying extra to fly someone in pretty much any time you see a black actor show up.

So, black characters try and kill the boys. So black characters die. It's kind of a trademark of the show that characters of all colours do that, and the show's definitely been richer for having had Charles Malik Whitfield and Sterling K. Brown on it. And Sterling acted himself back onto the show, past what was originally written.

Now, why they haven't bumped into any Native Americans or Asians, that's a whole different matter. But I don't get the black objection.

It seems like a double-edged sword to me. In LDC yesterday, an Indian guy was a victim. Which ... maybe not the best idea, but otherwise, in a story where he's only ever going to be a one-off character, he's the villain. So which is better?

And when they're casting for roles that are supposed to take place in these really small towns in the heart of the country, it's probably statistically correct that most of the characters are white. We lived in a town in Wyoming for a year, and of the 2,500 citizens maybe a dozen, literally, were black. There were far more Hispanic migrant farm laborers.

I can see how casting an Indian male as an employee of the telephone company was a little distastefully stereotypical, though.

Maggie was Asian! In Ghostfacers.

I can see how casting an Indian male as an employee of the telephone company was a little distastefully stereotypical, though.

You know, given he was actually in the US, it didn't even ping me.

Maggie was Asian! In Ghostfacers.

I admit I wish they hadn't mentioned she was adopted. Because? Hello? Der.

It's true that they're not exactly hanging out in LA or NYC. When I was living in Detroit it was a whole different minority profile.

But given the whole angle of their monster-hunting, it would be interesting to somehow spend some time with other cultures. Except the tendency there is to make them the bad guys, since they're in the monster-hunting business, not the magic-blessing giving business.

It seems like a double-edged sword to me

That's precisely it. You're most likely to be victim or villain, and they'd get crap for casting minorities in either place. So cast white only, instead of open ethnicity?

Basically either Bobby or Castiel would need to be black, I'm guessing, to "fix" things. And given that I think at least one of them won't live to see the next season (also Bobby's crippling would probably have been a thing), how would that have gone over?

I hate the idea that black people can't be evil and black people can't die--on a show full of evil dying people.

I hate the idea that black people can't be evil and black people can't die--on a show full of evil dying people.

I feel the same way. And about women, too. I can see not wanting their deaths to be sexualized on camera, and I would love to see more strong women characters stick around a bit on the show, but the truth is, the show is about Sam and Dean.

And, okay, now Bobby and Castiel. So it would have been awesome if Bobby had been played by a woman, or even if Castiel had been a girl. But then there's the contingent of fans who always see a woman as some sort of love interest and freak the hell right out. Given how Castiel and Dean's relationship has been fanonized, I imagine if the actor had been a woman, the fan vibe would have been a whole different thing.

I know Kripke panders to fan reaction, but at the same time I think he can't win for losing no matter what he does.

Given how Castiel and Dean's relationship has been fanonized, I imagine if the actor had been a woman, the fan vibe would have been a whole different thing

Yeah, totally.

Most of the other fan reaction I read is on TWOP, and they ghettoize their various preferences/prejudices, but the degree of interference there seems to be interpreted that Castiel brings to the Sam and Dean relationship is pretty strong. You'd think Sam spent more than two episodes away and Castiel and Dean rode off into the sunset together, for good or for ill.

My god, if Castiel had been a she, it would be crazy times.

I know Kripke panders to fan reaction, but at the same time I think he can't win for losing no matter what he does.

Yes, this. I still think there should be a strong woman left in their quiver (Pamela!) but I can't accuse him of fridging, for instance.

I hate the idea that black people can't be evil and black people can't die--on a show full of evil dying people.

What pinged me wrong in S2 was that all the recurring human antagonists were black males. Now, granted, they don't have a lot of recurring allies, period, and I don't want to give up any of the guys they cast, because they're awesome and I'm greedy, but when it was pinging *PETE* as unbalanced (he and Jilli watched S2 in a compressed timeframe), then it seems that maybe, just maybe, the balance is off.

Having the betrayer angel also cast as an imposing black guy? Meh. No matter how awesome the actor is.

(Clearly, the solution to this is to have more black people in more varied speaking roles whenever they're in larger cities, like SF or LA. I mean, they're in small towns often, but midsized to large ones at least as often. Oh, and to make Rufus recurring.)

Psych manages to do a good job of that, FWIW.

What pinged me wrong in S2 was that all the recurring human antagonists were black males

Is that more than Gordon and Henriksen?

Would it have been better if Gordon didn't recur, like was originally intended?

Having the betrayer angel also cast as an imposing black guy? Meh. No matter how awesome the actor is.

But if Zachariah was black, people (not saying you) would have complained too. He's mean to the boys. People were complaining Rafael was black.

Clearly, the solution to this is to have more black people in more varied speaking roles whenever they're in larger cities

Thing is, casting this is apparently not easy. The Vancouver casting pool for small roles seems to be overwhelmingly white. Colin's vocally bitter about this.

Does Psych have any recurring characters not related to Gus that aren't white? And Shawn doesn't count. Sarah Shahi aside (and she's an LA casting, not a local), I've always parsed it as pretty whitebread.

Wasn't Castiel originally intended to appear in no more than 5 episodes, until Misha Collins and SPN fandom fell in love with each other? I thought that character was only beefed up to regular sidekick status after viewer reaction to the actor took off into the stratosphere.

Is that more than Gordon and Henriksen?

I loosely define recurring as "in more than one episode" which loops in Jake as well.

Does Psych have any recurring characters not related to Gus that aren't white? And Shawn doesn't count. Sarah Shahi aside (and she's an LA casting, not a local), I've always parsed it as pretty whitebread.

Not recurrings (other than Buzz and Abigail, there haven't been a lot of recurring characters who aren't either Shawn or Gus's family members), but I've noticed more casting diversity, period. It's something that's stood out when watching it. Of course, they've also got a much more racially diverse cast of writers than most shows, which is probably the key.

Wasn't Castiel originally intended to appear in no more than 5 episodes

I seem to remember that, from Misha talking about his choice to speak so low for the character.

I loosely define recurring as "in more than one episode" which loops in Jake as well.

Then we need to at the very least add Ava. Or was she antagonistic in too few episodes?

The quick answer to your dilemma is to not have cast black guys in those roles, which I will always disagree with. Aldis was nothing special as Jake, but I make grabby hands at the other two. Because casting black guys in more major roles doesn't fix things, because they will die or menace people, while continuing to not be Bobby or Castiel.

The non-white people on Psych not named Shahi fail to stick in my head, but maybe it's because it's not really a show I find memorable. I can only remember the stuntier casting, and that's all white, except for Gus's family. And a priest, maybe?

Eureka has a diverse main cast, but when it comes to specifically casting relatives of non-white characters, they have problems. And when they decide to go local for open ethnicity roles, Colin says that's equivalent to going white.