I think if it gets as far as vesselhood, and that looks inevitable at this point, both of the brothers will be burnt out from the inside, nothing left of either host's awareness or personality even if the body survives, no matter the outcome of the final fight.

And I don't believe either of them wants to survive without the other, so that ends rather tidily.

I'm completely unspoiled and I'm avoiding spec and meta, this is just where I think things are headed.

But Jo and Ellen and Pamela and Bela and Ruby and Jess and Mary and Madison? They're all dead.

Okay, I get that you're listing out all the female characters that have been ganked around the Winchesters males. And that you're pissed about it. But you can't really blame all their deaths specifically on the guys. Bela made her deal with the Dark Side when she was a little girl; way before she ran across the Winchesters. Ruby as the human host was dying as Ruby the demon took her body, and the W's had nothing to do with that, and then Ruby the demon was, well, a demon. And evil. And needed to be killed.

Madison was an unfortunate victim of circumstance - she was a werewolf victim. Personally I would have held out for more of the month to see if a cure could be found rather than asking for death after the first night, or at least had wild monkey sex with Sam for the next 27 nights or so, but maybe that's just me. Anyway, again not their fault.

And Mary? Well, I am kind of ambivalent about Mary. I hate the effect her death had on the lives of the boys. But she made a deal with a demon. A deal that set her husband off on a lifelong vengeance quest, damned her son and has caused him no end of agony and by the way has now led to the apocalypse, so I'm running low on empathy for her at the moment.

But yeah, it would be nice to see at least one female character make it through to the end. They'd better damned well stay away from Missouri Mosely until after it's all over.

I wanted to see Peter Wingfield arise.

Heh. I gave a passing thought to that eventuality myself.

Samuel Campbell, Bill Harvelle, Jim Murphy, Caleb, Steve Wandell, the male hunters who died in the Roadhouse fire, Ash as well, (you forgot Olivia) the male hunters killed by the witnesses, Ronald, Victor, Gordon. The list of male hunters we've lost, along with male characters who've fought with the Winchesters is as long as the list of females. It's not just women who die. And not all of them helped or even worked with Sam and Dean. Fighting evil is risky.

It's not just women who die. And not all of them helped or even worked with Sam and Dean. Fighting evil is risky.

While this is true, there's no getting away from the fact that Show has given us women - key female characters - being killed in grotesquely and gleefully sexualised fashion (why no, I'm still not over the Season 4 finale, in which Porno!Lilith more or less orgasmed to death, and zealous little Ruby got put down in a manner discomfitingly akin to gang rape), along with far too few characters like Officer Kathleen or Missouri.

That's the problem. It's not just the deathcount (which is pretty damn high for both men and women who encounter the brothers Winchester, true) - it's the context. I'm actually not troubled by the gendered insults, and I don't think that the brothers come across as sexist, particularly. But the writers have made me wince a time or two, and, yeah, I'm pretty gutted to hear about the Harvelle women. I've not seen it, so I'm not making any statements about how it's done - but, yeah. Damn.

While this is true, there's no getting away from the fact that Show has given us women - key female characters - being killed in grotesquely and gleefully sexualised fashion

True, but I think that what we saw with Ellen and Jo was WAY the heck on the other side of that particular spectrum. It was heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking, and for me, just underscored that for most hunter families, that is the way the world ends. Campbells, Winchesters, Harvelles...

On a completely shallow note, I just about died when Dean called Castiel "Huggy Bear."

On a less shallow note, I adored Crowley and want to see more of him. I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

edit: mellenbal, so sorry to hear about the condo meeting. Shall I smuggle in a flask this morning?

I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

I was taking it that way, even if that's not what they were going for.

Anne, I was planning to work from home, but I'll be in just so I can get my mind off of it.

I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

Huh.

...did my GO/SPN story just stop being a crossover? I think maybe it almost kind of did.

Awesome.

I have to say it is interesting the boys have twice been to Carthage, Missouri. First in season 4 with Jack the Rugaru and last night's episode wherein Carthage was identified as the site of a bloody Civil War battle.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

From the RoadsideAmerica.com website:

Precious Moments figurines, for those of you who don't own any of the number-one collectible in the United States, are small porcelain bisque figurines of big-eyed children. Many of the figurines depict children with robes and halos: dead baby angels. To say thank you for their incredible popularity, creator Samuel Butcher created the chapel, a free attraction.

I have to wonder if one of the writers was dragged through Precious Moments Inspirational Park, and Lucifer raising Death was the result. Having been to Carthage and having stayed for one night at the Precious Moments-inspired Best Western - decorated aptly by images of large-eyed children and dead baby angels - it certainly warped my psyche.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

Huh. I've been there.

I think the show kills near everybody. The choice has been made not to hire women as semi-regulars, so their paucity is more noted, but the Winchesters are regularly shriven of associates and comrades. It's their mark.