I wanted to see Peter Wingfield arise.

Heh. I gave a passing thought to that eventuality myself.

Samuel Campbell, Bill Harvelle, Jim Murphy, Caleb, Steve Wandell, the male hunters who died in the Roadhouse fire, Ash as well, (you forgot Olivia) the male hunters killed by the witnesses, Ronald, Victor, Gordon. The list of male hunters we've lost, along with male characters who've fought with the Winchesters is as long as the list of females. It's not just women who die. And not all of them helped or even worked with Sam and Dean. Fighting evil is risky.

It's not just women who die. And not all of them helped or even worked with Sam and Dean. Fighting evil is risky.

While this is true, there's no getting away from the fact that Show has given us women - key female characters - being killed in grotesquely and gleefully sexualised fashion (why no, I'm still not over the Season 4 finale, in which Porno!Lilith more or less orgasmed to death, and zealous little Ruby got put down in a manner discomfitingly akin to gang rape), along with far too few characters like Officer Kathleen or Missouri.

That's the problem. It's not just the deathcount (which is pretty damn high for both men and women who encounter the brothers Winchester, true) - it's the context. I'm actually not troubled by the gendered insults, and I don't think that the brothers come across as sexist, particularly. But the writers have made me wince a time or two, and, yeah, I'm pretty gutted to hear about the Harvelle women. I've not seen it, so I'm not making any statements about how it's done - but, yeah. Damn.

While this is true, there's no getting away from the fact that Show has given us women - key female characters - being killed in grotesquely and gleefully sexualised fashion

True, but I think that what we saw with Ellen and Jo was WAY the heck on the other side of that particular spectrum. It was heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking, and for me, just underscored that for most hunter families, that is the way the world ends. Campbells, Winchesters, Harvelles...

On a completely shallow note, I just about died when Dean called Castiel "Huggy Bear."

On a less shallow note, I adored Crowley and want to see more of him. I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

edit: mellenbal, so sorry to hear about the condo meeting. Shall I smuggle in a flask this morning?

I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

I was taking it that way, even if that's not what they were going for.

Anne, I was planning to work from home, but I'll be in just so I can get my mind off of it.

I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

Huh.

...did my GO/SPN story just stop being a crossover? I think maybe it almost kind of did.

Awesome.

I have to say it is interesting the boys have twice been to Carthage, Missouri. First in season 4 with Jack the Rugaru and last night's episode wherein Carthage was identified as the site of a bloody Civil War battle.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

From the RoadsideAmerica.com website:

Precious Moments figurines, for those of you who don't own any of the number-one collectible in the United States, are small porcelain bisque figurines of big-eyed children. Many of the figurines depict children with robes and halos: dead baby angels. To say thank you for their incredible popularity, creator Samuel Butcher created the chapel, a free attraction.

I have to wonder if one of the writers was dragged through Precious Moments Inspirational Park, and Lucifer raising Death was the result. Having been to Carthage and having stayed for one night at the Precious Moments-inspired Best Western - decorated aptly by images of large-eyed children and dead baby angels - it certainly warped my psyche.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

Huh. I've been there.

I think the show kills near everybody. The choice has been made not to hire women as semi-regulars, so their paucity is more noted, but the Winchesters are regularly shriven of associates and comrades. It's their mark.

Well, and there's the whole point of the show: supernatural evil kills people and destroys lives. It would be a little weird if everyone always survived, especially the people we (or the Winchesters) care about.

It's a shame to me that we didn't get Jo and Ellen as semi-regulars instead of Bobby (MUCH AS I ADORE BOBBY), but it makes sense to me that Ellen, especially, didn't want to align herself too closely with them on a regular basis. Because the Winchesters are *dangerous* in the really personally involved, sometimes scary obsessed way, and they knew that back when John was alive.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

So, definitely Hellhole.