That was the rugaru episode, I think. Good call.

The backwards incantation -- or at least Dean's reaction to it -- didn't strike me weird until I read the discussion here. Also a good call!

I do think that a lot of the issues that are unsettling are going to be resolved, just ... not right away.

I would be okay with them just remembering, in the way that writers do sometimes, but I think it's odd if it's something weird enough that it takes Dean by surprise. After all, hasn't it been Sam's place to be surprised Dean reads, or whatever?

I'm trying to work out if this story is supposed to be an AU past of Dean's, as opposed to one where they try and slip D/C into canon, and only diverge in S5 or whenever, because:

Talk aside, Dean’s only gone what he’d classify as “all the way” with a handful of people this side of hell. Flirting and groping and tongue sucking aside, he’s maybe had -- half a dozen partners? -- since he and Tim Wilson discovered the pleasure of reciprocal hand jobs in the Wilson’s basement during those six months the Winchesters had been in Toledo.

And he's not talking about guys. I read up and down the surrounding sentences to be sure. If men in what the author meant, they didn't set the stage right.

Yeah, the author is implying that Dean has only had half a dozen sex partners since he was a teenager, which even canon shows us is not true. Bad writing.

I can take transplanting him from a hunter to a cop or auto mechanic, but being enthusiastically well-experienced is one of the things you can't remove and still have him read as Dean.

I don't know if this has been posted (I'm not reading the thread) but I ran across a Amazon Deal for the Kindle version of Supernatural: John Winchester's Journal. I don't know how good this is, but currently it's a $1.99 [link]

For some reason I seem to have read at least the start of that before, judging by the Look Inside feature. I do know Mike is about to sit him down for a talk..

But what I didn't remember was the reference to Dean and T-Ball. Oh, my poor heart.

I can't believe I looked at that IV hookup on Alphas and thought Djinn before I thought Inception.

Then again--I needed a picture to illustrate "I have plucked my eyes out" and there was no picture for it but Sam in Bloody Mary. I wonder if I could go a day like--just illustrating all my IO9 posts with some picture from Show or another.

I bumped into another person who knows how Supernatural is. Because Teen Wolf engages with its fandom and entertains gay innuendo in a way that Buffy/Angel and Supernatural never did.

I swear to god, I missed the River of Lethe meeting when it comes to Teen Wolf. I want my own Stiles just like you're supposed to, but I'VE DONE FANDOM BEFORE. So have you. Jesus. Jeff Davis hasn't actually put hoyay into his shows yet. He's gone "Oh, what? Oh, that's cool!" He is SEASONS behind where you were with your other shows. Hell, White Collar came out of the gate gayer than this, and I'm not talking about Bomer. Just because Sterek has been trending on all the social media in the last eight months...

My entire point was, actually, that Jeff Davis should not listen to the fans, and he should do what makes the best story, not what makes the loudest fans louder. I.E., learn from the mistakes made with Spike and Bela/Jo. Write your own damned story, not for the network, not for the petitioners.

I don't know, I'd say Teen Wolf is the gayer show, it just doesn't involve fandom's preferred OTP in the hoyay. I don't recall Sam or Dean getting numbers from a gaggle of drag queens during a case and inviting them to parties at a later date. Nor can SPN match the amount of angsty shirtless confrontations in locker rooms and showers. Though if Jeremy Carver takes that as a challenge, fine by me!

Admittedly I've spent way too little time in male locker rooms, but don't they all have a lot of shirtless guys?

But the conversation wasn't about who was gayer--it was about who would shy away from engaging in gay nods to the audience, and Jeff Davis hasn't done that--he's just been writing his "no issue Beacon Hills" which involves angst free gay clubs and drag queens. That had nothing to do with his relationship to the fans, because that only came about after the season was already filmed.

Do you not see a difference between gay content and hoyay?

You mean Davis is just writing his show the way he envisions the world he created, but SPN writers are winking at viewers with the "Dick" jokes and all that, right?