At this point is there any chance Dean is an atheist, rather than thinking God is a dick?
River: The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems. Mal: See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like.
'Safe'
Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?
[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
Typo Boy - Jun 09, 2012 12:56:56 pm PDT #25465 of 30002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
§ ita § - Jun 09, 2012 1:21:36 pm PDT #25466 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Someone on IO9 is saying that if Dean fought demons (and vampires and shapeshifters--but that makes no sense) he can't be atheist.
I said that by S2 demons are still new to him, and he does believe in gods, but he doesn't attribute divinity to any of the "gods", just superpowers.
S4, he accepts that there is a Christian god, so I guess he can't be atheist anymore, but he's certainly not a worshipper. He just concedes his existence.
Juliebird - Jun 09, 2012 1:27:11 pm PDT #25467 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
And that's not a new concept: believing in God but not having faith in Him, doubting His intentions or reliability or interest. After I gave up on the church and religion, I never gave up on the idea of something out there, but never thought that it was benevolent or invested in my well-being.
§ ita § - Jun 09, 2012 1:38:40 pm PDT #25468 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
The person is saying that Show doesn't understand what atheism means. But I just can't remember Dean calling himself an atheist.
Juliebird - Jun 09, 2012 1:43:58 pm PDT #25469 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
In my memory, Dean never said that word. I do remember him being dubious in that fake angel ep, and again when confronted with what Castiel said he was. Or, maybe not dubious, but adamant about their lack of existence, which I guess would mean atheist in a Catholic/Protestant sense.
§ ita § - Jun 09, 2012 1:47:30 pm PDT #25470 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I mean, seems clear he knows gods exist, he just didn't believe the Judeo Christian one existed. Is that an atheist position? And he doesn't seem to think the gods whose existence he knows of have anything special about them that separates them from a vampire, et al.
Juliebird - Jun 09, 2012 1:54:48 pm PDT #25471 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
From a basic definition, he'd have to not believe in any gods existence for him to be an atheist, which isn't the case.
Amy - Jun 09, 2012 2:26:37 pm PDT #25472 of 30002
Because books.
Yeah, atheism denies the existence of god. So that's what Dean was, even if he didn't use the word, until he met Castiel.
I have no idea what demons and vampires have to do with it, though. Vampires, at least, are not biblical creatures.
§ ita § - Jun 09, 2012 2:48:16 pm PDT #25473 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
But Dean didn't deny the existence of gods. He was almost sacrificed to one in Scarecrow. They took a couple out in A Very Supernatural Christmas, and they thought they were chasing one in Tall Tales.
It's the Judeo Christian one he said didn't exist.
Juliebird - Jun 09, 2012 2:57:09 pm PDT #25474 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
That's what I'm saying. Atheism implies the denial of All gods, pagan and Judeo Christian and Muslim and whatnot. So to be strict about it, him not believing in a Judeo Christian God while believing in pagan gods . . . Actually, back to my initial thought on the difference between knowing and believing: he knows pagan gods exist, but doesn't "believe" in them, in the faith and worship sense. But he outright doesn't believe in JC Superstar. No knowing, no believing, no faith, nothing.
Hmm...
It's a hard notion to define when the idea of "knowing God exists" in a "just about met Him" world. Because that's not something that Webster's dictionary has as a basis for a definition.