Sometimes I think about the father John would have been if Mary had lived, to figure out which traits would have surfaced anyway and which were directly a result of him being alone and parenting two very small children on his own after the violent, horrifying, mysterious death of his wife.

That's trauma enough, but I think people forget how young the boys were -- parenting a six-month-old baby on your own would be incredibly hard, and then you add a grieving four-year-old to the equation. Plus, as involved and loving as I assume he was while Mary was alive, he was still working full-time, so he would have missed a lot of the daily grind of fussiness and diapers and naplessness and toilet training.

I'm willing to forgive him a lot, I guess, even when I know I probably shouldn't.

Sometimes I think about the father John would have been if Mary had lived

I think probably fairly decent, but would probably trip up frequently by his own stubbornness. I could also see there being problems if he didn't admit when something was wrong (e.g. him not telling Mary he'd lost his job).

I didn't realize that I thought John might have been an awesome dad but for Yellow Eyes until Dark Side of the Moon, and Dean's "happy" memory of Mom arguing on the phone and the revelation that John "moved out for a few days", and that it was an argument they'd had before. I like the realism that their marriage wasn't perfect until after Mary died. It still bugs that it's part of Dean's greatest hits in Heaven.

That shit is exactly why my panties belong to Dean. That his best memories are where he did things for people, that his self esteem is that low, that it is so twisted in up in who he is that he's there for Sam, being a more fun parent, that he's there for his mother at age *four* acting in lieu of his Dad again--to know that the emotional incest thing he had going on with John was something he was totally ripe for before Mary died.

That's the great big idiot I love so much.

OMG you're right! Ha!

I'm watching seeing wee!Dean watch his parents fight. Dean's watching and being there for his mom, with no blame on anyone.

Dean, you are one fucked up dude.

I need to watch In my Time of Dying because John giving Dean credit for everything that he did, kills me every damn time. John loved his boys and I love John (and his boys).

I was trying to think what to do and I guess this is a sign to continue my season one rewatch on Netflix. That pilot was pretty good. I'd watch that show. How was it ever explained that the Woman in White was able to attack Sam? Sam said he hadn't been unfaithful and she said, "you will be". Did that ever pan out to have any significance outside of the episode? Cause I don't remember Sam ever being unfaithful.

I love that D/C is doing so well in E!'s top couples. I hope someone has alerted Misha so he can rally his minions. D/C is definitely more worthy than Glee.

I didn't take it as any meaningful prophecy on the Woman in White's part, just that she was deep into her "All men are CHEATERZ!!!1!" mindset and was punishing the latest guy she met for what she assumed he'd do given the chance.

I think that's how I took it at the time. It was only watching it again that I wondered. But it makes more sense that she was in that mind frame.

My impression was that it was some sort of mystical rule she was bound by--it was her schtick. I consider that on a level with Dean's eyes bleeding in Bloody Mary--hello?

In no real way would I want grieving John to be my father, but in the world of ita Sue, that's totally how it went down. I know it's incredibly unhealthy, but it's compelling on a character level because they made it complex (especially with the layering with young John (I still don't get how people (including JDM) think Kripke assassinated John in later seasons--I think they enriched him and made him more understandable)), and it's also twisted wish fulfillment on my part.

Oh man, that is one awesome episode. Brother love, father love, son love, it's all there. And it has one of my favorite lines: Why, John, you're a sentimentalist. If only your boys knew how much their daddy loved them.

JDM gave good John.

In no real way would I want grieving John to be my father, but in the world of ita Sue, that's totally how it went down.

Yes, in no way was he assassinated in my eyes. I know the complaints, I just don't care. He did better than I would have been able to and he kept his kids alive. I love him more than my luggage.