Me three. Stupid center of the country living. But after the polar caps melt, I'll be having the last laugh.

Someone on IO9 is composing a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and she's included John Winchester and then said she's looking for a leader. I pointed out that a) John can lead pretty well and b) if you tell John he's not the leader, he's going to walk.

Then I suggested she pick Dean as leader, because he's better at it than John--he's a good strategist, and a better people person, and pulls great unlikely ideas out of his fine, fine ass.

Someone suggested Sam as leader, but I really think Sam's a good partner. Like, if they're going to be just the two of you (and sex isn't a prime motivator), I might pick Sam over Dean. I think Dean would suck it up and not be team lead more than his father would, but I think Sam wouldn't have to be sucking anything up--he knows how to lend his not insignificant talents to a team effort really well.

And then I realised I was arguing over one spot on her list, and Winchesters only, and good god, that's why I have the rep on IO9 that I do, because I take this shit way too seriously.

But I'm also right! So there's that!

I would take Dean over John as a leader, because John is too autocratic; Dean can lead but he can accept input as well.

John would be a good point man or recon man, or leader of a small strike force, and I'd definitely want him in on strategic planning, but leader? He's been lone wolf, my-way-or-the-highway too long.

And then I realised I was arguing over one spot on her list, and Winchesters only, and good god, that's why I have the rep on IO9 that I do, because I take this shit way too seriously.

Hey, someone has to do it.

Much as I love Sir, I would take Dean *or* Sam as team leader over John. John is way too military about it. Which might not be a bad thing depending on the goal, actually, but Dean would be more fun about it.

There are so many reasons I would make a crappy soldier.

I have a really hard time envisioning Sam as a team leader. And I think that's because he'd never lead a team that Dean's on, so it means Dean's missing, so I'm all sad. But Dean can lead a team with Sam on it, so it's okay.

John would be a good point man or recon man

I'm curious about his specific role in the Marines again. He must have taken orders then, but somewhere inbetween the fire and now completely lost that ability. Being responsible for his boys in a situation where no one was trustworthy--where even the people that knew about the dark side of life...hell, most of them are even less trustworthy to leave his kids around. So he has to call all the shots.

And spending all that time with Sam and Dean as his personal strike unit, he never had any need to work with others. And by the time the series rolled around, he'd alienated pretty much everyone but, say, Missouri. And she's a special case.

In terms of things that can only happen in fic, I'd love to see Sir!John go up against Sampa in a scenario where they were both fighting on the same side. And I do mean against.

He was a kid in Vietnam -- he would have been a total grunt, and not in any position of authority.

How old was he when he left? What rank? I don't remember what ranking Dean gave in Croatoan.

I guess there was a moment, like the moment before he cut his hand for the angel sigils, where it all became different, because it had to.

But I'm wondering what sort of experience he already had, and what he had to gain.

One of my friends on adifferent team than me had some reammates that dud the show up at the address thing. After the work Misha bought them pizza!

So, so jealous.

I think Anne worked it all out, although it doesn't really work, if you check all the dates. He had to have been eighteen and not much more, simply because it was late in the war by then.

SuperWiki says:

John cannot plausibly have been born any later than 1957 (so as to have been 18, and in the Marines, in 1975). Considering the notes below about Vietnam force reduction, the likelihood is high that he turned 18 before 1971 (in which case his birth year would be 1953 or earlier).

In an alternate reality experienced by Dean, John's gravestone indicates he was born in 1954.

And Dean says he was a corporal, which is fourth from the lowest.

For John not to have reached Corporal if he did a full stint, he would have had to fuck up pretty badly. But yeah, the dates only work with a fair amount of hand-waving.