To SPN, you mean?
Handsome brooding vampire guy has to swoop in all sensitive mouth and overhanging forehead. How 'bout leaving some scraps for the homely-looking fellows who don't turn evil when they get some?
Doyle ,'Life of the Party'
Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?
[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
Amy - Mar 25, 2011 8:40:22 am PDT #18632 of 30002
Because books.
§ ita § - Mar 25, 2011 8:46:04 am PDT #18633 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Yup.
Amy - Mar 25, 2011 8:53:59 am PDT #18634 of 30002
Because books.
Oh, excellent!
§ ita § - Mar 25, 2011 10:55:49 am PDT #18635 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Okay, quick questions about Dark Side Of The Moon:
- Did Zachariah manipulate what memories the boys saw?
- Did the boys share the same heaven?
- Are they soulmates?
- What was up with Pamela? Was she really her?
- Was Ash really him?
Now, for me, I thought no, yes, yes, weirdo, maybe not, yes. And apart from Pamela, I'm surprised there's even a question.
You guys?
Amy - Mar 25, 2011 11:03:56 am PDT #18636 of 30002
Because books.
These are quick?
This episode drives me nuts, because there are so many great moments and revelations in it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. At minimum the writers didn't seem to establish the rules of how heaven works, at least so I could understand them.
If Ash's heaven is the roadhouse, for example, is that his ... home? We know he can travel, but I assume not everyone can. So is Pamela really at a show at the Meadowlands on a daily basis, unless Ash picks her up to visit?
Given what Ash explained, it didn't make sense to me that the boys wound up together, unless they are in fact soul mates. But I also didn't get the journey part of their time in heaven, outside of it being necessary for plot purposes.
Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 25, 2011 11:39:01 am PDT #18637 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
My hope is that Heaven isn't actually a lonely greatest hits holodeck experience for everyone forever; that what we saw is just an initial stage (kind of like Robin Williams' experiences in What Dreams May Come) until they're ready to interact with others who've been there longer.
§ ita § - Mar 25, 2011 12:45:51 pm PDT #18638 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
If Ash's heaven is the roadhouse, for example, is that his ... home?
Well, it was where he lived on Earth, so that makes sense to me.
until they're ready to interact with others who've been there longer.
But Ash said explicitly that people don't interact with others unless you do the Enochian magic or they're soulmates. So do you think he was wrong or lying?
Amy - Mar 25, 2011 1:51:39 pm PDT #18639 of 30002
Because books.
Why would Ash lie, though?
There was no one at the roadhouse with him, but we saw him bring Pamela there. I guess my question is, are you always alone in heaven? Because that's sort of horrible.
And how does that explain Sam at Thanksgiving with his little girlfriend's family? Where they landed seems more like a dreamscape (or memoryscape) than heaven, at least the way I've usually heard it described. And I certainly wouldn't want to be alone.
The problem for me is that they needed Ash there to explain how it worked, and how to get to Jacob, but having him there screwed with the logic of the rest of what we saw.
§ ita § - Mar 25, 2011 1:57:50 pm PDT #18640 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Ash would lie if Ash was somehow's Zach's angle. Either on his side or fake Ash created by Zach like fake Mary was.
And how does that explain Sam at Thanksgiving with his little girlfriend's family?
How do you mean? How is that different from Dean with fake Sam or fake Mary?
Since Ash said that everyone had their own heavens, if his word is to be trusted, yeah, you're alone.
but having him there screwed with the logic of the rest of what we saw.
How? I thought he explained himself sufficiently.
Amy - Mar 25, 2011 2:12:54 pm PDT #18641 of 30002
Because books.
Did Ash wake up in the roadhouse, or did he wander through his memories the way Sam and Dean did? Did he choose to make the roadhouse his home?
And if he's not lying, and you're alone (unless you have his skills to find other people), then Sam and Dean *were* only walking through memories. And that's not what Ash is doing in the roadhouse.
Pamela's remark about one long show at the Meadowlands could just be a metaphor, since we don't actually see her heaven, but in Kama Sutra guy's, there were clearly other people around if Ash was part of hot, sweaty orgies there.
It seems a) like contradictory information, and b) confusing, which is not what most people imagine heaven to be. A sub station isn't unusual, before you reach your ultimate destination (I'm thinking more of the limbo in Heaven Can Wait here than anything else), but to wake up in heaven without any idea where you are seems a little cruel.
Zachariah was clearly able to fuck with them, since he did in the memory with Mary at the end, but since he was, why wasn't he able to from the beginning?
Like I said, I loved a lot of the moments and revelations, but the episode, or at least its concept of heaven, never made sense to me. And the reason it really bugged was because I had an idea for a fic set in heaven, and I haven't been able to figure out how to make it work according to canon, since I can't decide what canon is.