Even before they retconned Brady (where are my threesomes?) into Jess, even before she got killed, that wasn't going to be properly happy. Some people can leave family, and there's not much of a dent to be seen. Sam can get out from under John's shadow, but how much can he extricate himself from Dean, even when they're apart for years? That's going to come up during the quiet times, and it's going to be a hole in an otherwise good relationship with a great woman. More about me makes sense when you meet my sister. And we ain't got shit on the Winchesters. Your loved one wants to make that sort of sense of you.

They were all they had. And then no more. I don't like S/D/J fic. Because I don't think D needs to go there, that's ick. Though I have discussed sharing men with my sister, nobody gets to fall in Sam like love.

This made more sense at the start of the post.

I'm not sure I'm following you.

In the meantime, BWAH.

Hah!

And, yeah, ita lost me at Sir!wincest.

I had gone and transcribed the pertinent scene from YCHtT and my ethernet cable had pulled out when I hit Post. Grrr.

To recap: Dean had thought Soulless Sam to be a monster, to be, in fact, like Dean. That Dean was good at cutting throats. That they spilled so much blood until the blood spilled was their own. That Dean thought he could be a father, but he was a killer. Eh, I know I got the heart of that wrong.

No, that J isn't Sir, it's Jess. Just rambling that Sam can't really be happy with Jess without Dean or the knowledge of Dean. Just that Dean need not be up in there non-platonically. Just that Dean's a part of Sam, and whatever facts about Sam you don't know pale beside not knowing the reflected chunk of Sam that is his intersection with Dean.

I had to jump to the end because I can't remember what YCHtT is and it's driving me nuts.

You Can't Handle the Truth, Bev.

Just that Dean's a part of Sam, and whatever facts about Sam you don't know pale beside not knowing the reflected chunk of Sam that is his intersection with Dean.

Ah, okay. I get it now.

Thanks Amy.

Loving the discussion.

Oh thank god. I didn't want to be looking at you sideways.

I'd like to think that Sam was cutting off a huge part of himself with establishing a life in college and with Jess. It could have been successful. Depends on the person. But I think in this 'verse, Sam would have been deluding himself for only so long.

Sam was cutting off too much, IMO. Just looking at him looking at Dean in this past episode--I don't think he could have gotten married, had kids, moved somewhere new, without bringing at least Dean up. And even if Jess was an angel and didn't press, that house of cards would not stand.

I'm trying to work out if Dean could have been more successful with Lisa, if Sam had never come back. Well, alcoholism was a given, so that caps that. But at least she knew. And at least he thought he couldn't get Sam back. Sam would have had a lurking Dean forever.

Well, alcoholism was a given, so that caps that.

Some alcoholics do quit, though. Another year, and he's that much more removed from Sam (if he hadn't returned), and he's that much more involved with Ben and Lisa, he might not have needed it so much, and he might have considered AA or whatever.

The thing for me with Dean is, he commits. There's a lot of black and white in Dean's worldview. It's just that with Sam in the picture, Sam is usually the whole picture. But think about how committed he's always been to taking care of Sam, to fulfilling his father's expectations. If he decided to throw in for good with Lisa and Ben (no matter what the motivation), I could see him choosing to stop drinking and really doing it.