I have been known to snark what I ship.

Bev, I'm not sure how to take pointing out, again, that you don't like a particular topic as anything but harshing squee. I apologize if you meant it differently somehow.

I've read and written Wincest. But I don't discuss it here because it's a cultural taboo for a lot of people, and it's never been part of thread culture. I assume other people don't for that reason, or because they read it and don't necessarily want to admit it or talk about it, which is also fine. It's a kinky thing, and not discussing it here seems to be more gentleman's agreement than anything else. It certainly gets plenty of play elsewhere.

But there's no longstanding taboo against sex with angels in human form, and the show has illustrated more than once that angels are sexual creatures, anyway. So while I understand that you don't like it, I think a lot of folks are simply happy to have a ship to discuss for once. The show sure hasn't given us a lot of other pairings of major characters.

Considering The Show doesn't even recoginze the Wincest taboo I'm not sure if anybody should feel compelled to avoid talking about it in this thread. That said, as it's (still, so far) not my beautiful cake, I do appreciate the pussy-footing around the subject.

imo, we should all feel free to bring up anything Winchester related in this thread but it's also OK to make the occasional squicky noise. Speaking for myself, I'm fine with getting a little squicked and moving on.

getting a little squicked and moving on.

Thanks, Laga, that's a good attitude to have. I'm working on it.

I understand, Amy. I realize I'm the odd man out. Still working on the attitude. Sorry again for squee-harshing. Please, as you were.

If a crossroads demon can take Sam (or Samuel) back out of Heaven, Lucifer can probably do it.

Thing is, I have no idea if Sam had actually made it that far before he was raised from the dead (the first time). He may have been hanging around in Tricia Helfer Land for a while. And I'm dubious about Samuel having made it at all in light of his behavior since his return... I'm definitely not getting an enlightened spent-30-years-in-Heaven-and-know Mary's-in-a-better-place vibe off him. (Also, do we know for sure what brought him back? He voiced a belief that it was the same thing that restored Sam, but I didn't think we had actual confirmation on that.)

I don't think we did either.

It would be interesting if civil war in Heaven and general chaos in Hell means that random dead people are coming back to life and you know, things are all out of whack.

(Also, do we know for sure what brought him back? He voiced a belief that it was the same thing that restored Sam, but I didn't think we had actual confirmation on that.)

I thought Crowley brought them both back. He said so, didn't he?

Why should we believe what Crowley said?

I like that idea, but Samuel isn't very random. I'm pretty sure he was brought back for a specific purpose.

It would be interesting if civil war in Heaven and general chaos in Hell means that random dead people are coming back to life and you know, things are all out of whack.

I've wondered how (post) apocalyptic things seem to civilians during this season and last. We know that there was a lot of weird/bad shit going on last season, and that the monsters and evil things are changing the rules this season (hunting out of their territory, not being afraid of hunters, etc), but we haven't really seen civilian reaction to it, other than the town which was possessed by the Whore of Babylon.