I know, that's what makes sense to me, too--both the coming back as he died--which, you know, makes the whole Mary thing of Samuel's so bizarre. Because wouldn't Mary come back as she left? Mother of two, a young matron, rather than a teenaged daughter?--and the father of two, rather than the young, expectant father, pretty much clueless about he occult. That wouldn't be a powerful confrontation at all.

I don't have sites on the Kripke thing, sorry. It's a cumulative impression of asides from several people, plus some between the lines things from Krip. He's been accused by many (fans and fan-critics, mostly) of loadng his own father issues onto the Winchesters.

Because wouldn't Mary come back as she left? Mother of two, a young matron, rather than a teenaged daughter?

I don't get why that's bizarre. It's what I'd assumed. Why do you think something different?

I've seen people accuse Kripke of tarring John, but I've never seen a single quotation that made it seem like he disliked the character, and certainly nothing that would lead me to think he disliked him more than Sera specifically.

So, given the sympathetic and positive portrayal of him in the one appearance he had last season, I'm going to wait for evidence. It doesn't add up to me.

Finally got a chance to watch ash's Wrong vid. Wow. So good and kinda hurty, but not. And some of the transitions and internal movement is awesome (like when wee Sam runs to punch and then it's gigantor following through, or Lucifer turning and Sam finishing the motion.

The external footage works because it's so generic. I've seen stock footage of cities used in two different tv shows, so that's definitely not sacred territory (Daybreak and Life, both LA based).

If Mary or John were to make a reappearance, I would think the adult versions would be the most appropriate. But I don't think that, story-wise, there's a burning need to see them again. I don't feel any nagging unresolved plot threads with their afterlife, and that any resolution has to be on Dean (and Sam and Sampa) accepting that their (still) gone. That the story needs to revolve around the living and the living-again, and the more I see Sampa, the more I wish they'd found some other, actually-never-been-dead relative.

Do you have citations for that?

I don't have time to listen to this JDM interview again right now, but if I remember correctly, he discusses SPN and says that he always hears that he's too busy to come back on the show but the truth is that he's never been asked. Also that he's not sure that he'd want to come back because he doesn't like the way the character has been mutated from what he originally understood him to be.

I know JDM doesn't like where John has gone. I just don't get why Kripke is supposed to dislike John. That's the citation I'm looking for, and JDM didn't answer that question either.

I mean, there might be no good narrative reason to have him back, and that's why he's not been asked. But that's an entirely different proposition.

Although if someone is going to kill him

Wow. Y'all are bloodthirstier than I, which is saying something. I've considered he should be shunned, but not killed.

I don't feel any nagging unresolved plot threads with their afterlife, and that any resolution has to be on Dean (and Sam and Sampa) accepting that their (still) gone.

Do we care where they are? I'd assumed heaven but it's been stated pretty clearly that we don't actually know.

And, personally, I'd like to know. If we aren't going to end with the Winchesters dying to save the world, hey, happy endings wouldn't suck.

I've considered he should be shunned, but not killed.

I'm so on Dean's side it's not funny. They'll probably not do it all vengey style like I might want--if it does happen, it'll be a battle with immediate peril, or maybe he'll change his mind at the last minute and redeem himself (and then sacrifice himself, natch).

But the idea of Dean hunting him down and killing him? I still wish Roy and Walt to come to an abrupt revenge-driven end. It's how my blood courses. Fucker tried to kill them both.

They'll probably not do it all vengey style like I might want

In my idle imaginings -- I spend way too much time re-imagaining SPN plotlines, I tell you -- at that moment when Dean is ready to put down Samuel Sam steps up and says "let me do it." And explains (in short sentences, because these guys don't go in for long conversations so much) that his soul is already in hell, but that Dean still is bound for heaven. So let Sam be the one to kill off granddad. And then my heart clenches because Dean always tried to be the one to take on the harder jobs to spare Sam (like offering to be the person to kill Madison) but now Sam will always step forward and try to be the person to take the shot in these cases (in my version of the show, anyway). Since he doesn't have anything left to lose, literally.

Aw. That's SPN-sad.

I do hope Sam gets his soul back before that's an issue, though.

That is definitely SPN sad but I don't see the Dean I've known for the last six years killing kin without a damn good reason. Sadly, I don't think selling your grandsons out to a demon rates at this stage. But they should totes shun him.

I still wish Roy and Walt to come to an abrupt revenge-driven end.

Well, yeah. They KILLED them.

Um, Roy and Walt were the ones that killed them, right?

I think if someone kills you, you can kill them right back. It's the lessor things where you've got to figure out what is the good path versus what is evil.