Saving a small helpless child from a fire is a lot different than bringing bac your grown daughter from death, to me.

So does this mean Meg is Queen of Hell now?

Saving a small helpless child from a fire is a lot different than bringing back your grown daughter from death, to me.

Though I could make an argument Samuel never had a period of mourning before he had the opportunity to bring her back so perhaps to him it's the same difference?

Part of me wants Mary to come back and be all "You picked me over my own SONS?!!!"

Has the observation already been made that the Meg actress was on Terriers?

I love this show and haven't really been down on it all (well maybe a little in season 3). Until now other than occasional annoyance related to the humor and treatment of women, I haven't reacted the way I did to any previous episodes, some I liked less than others, but this one may rank at the top of my dislike list.

That said, there was significant enough plot advancement to the arc story that I can't pretend it never happened. And I agree with everyone who has said Jared is knocking not!Sam out of the park. I'm loving his character and arc this season.

If felt to me like Dean's dialog this episode could have literally been edited out of any one of the 100+ episodes they've already filmed. Jensen's performance remains wonderful.

I felt no glee for the Cas boner jokes, just discomfort. In fact, much of this episode was watch from the hall for me.

Maybe it's kind of reverse, not who you save from death, but who you bring back to life? And Sam's halfway there, and Sampa doesn't actually care --but it's not even a matter of choosing between two, really. It's not Mary or ___, and it's not like Mary is in Hell (and I don't see how Crowley had the power to pull Sampa out of Heaven, and I'd think he was lying, but Sampa doesn't seem to have memories of Hell, but hey, maybe...

Meg would be an awesome Queen of Hell. I've loved that actress since I saw her in Life.

As for Cas and his sexuality, this Cas seems to not be on par with the Cas and the den of iniquity. Something isn't jiving. Not that I liked nervous panicky virginal Cas then, AT ALL.

I can buy Cas' reaction to the sexual situations. He had to make it from the brothel all the way to The End so there had to be some progress. Because The End is not their present course of timeline, I don't see any reason that Cas wouldn't still develop in his sexuality. If he is learning sexuality from porn and Dean, then this seemed right as a starting place. I wasn't embarrassed until he was watching in front of Sampa. But like I said, as soon as Cas made a funny, I was back in from the hall.

I buy this sexuality of Cas. He has lady's man in him and he is in a bit more stable place with respect to powers. And he still has no idea what is appropriate. So he's going to bump into experience. I really like that he didn't stop just because Dean told him to. The remark to Sampa was love for that reason. Dean is my compass, but only so far.

Thanks, Perkins. I thought she was more than a throw-away, but a call back to the jinn story line makes sense.

I think a lot of Samuel's reasoning is fueled by guilt. Though it was really no fault of his, he remembers Azazel using him to make Mary's deal to bring John back and thus was the instrument of her death. That by that same reasoning he was the instrument of Sam's downfall, John's life of vengeance and his grandsons' blighted childhoods he hasn't appeared to consider as immediate to his own guilt.

Sam listened to Castiel's and Crowley's descriptions of the probable state of his soul, and has enough intellectual imagination to realize the implications for him if such a tattered thing were to be forced on him. Bad enough to have a sloppy, emotional, guilt-laden soul hampering your hunts, anyway. One that severely damaged? A frightening prospect, even on an intellectual level. And that Dean, who purports to "love" Sam, would insist on forcing that on him? I think inasfar as he's capable at the moment, Sam is both frightened of the prospect and disappointed and bitter at Dean for wanting Sam to be burdened that way.

Dean believes it can all be fixed. So he's somewhat hypocritical towards Sampa, because he's going to any end to get Sam's soul back, despite it being a potentially bad thing, to restore his family unit. And he'll just fix stuff. Like no doubt Sampa thought he could take care of whatever he had to do to get what he wanted.

Dean probably wants to rescue Sam from what's happening to him right now! That can't be helping him sleep nights. Non-con fisting the soul back into Robo Sam (see, there are opportunities, Gamble--make it less clothed), well, is the choice rescuing the soul and sending it on to heaven? Or trying to get his brother back. That's when we know how selfish he is.

Oh, no argument Dean is trying to reestablish his comfort status quo. At some level he's still a child clinging to the only stability he ever had, and I get that.

I also get he *thinks* he's trying to rescue his brother. Only his idea of rescue may be a lot worse than what his brother has now. But I get why Dean can't think that through and be rational about it--not that that makes it right.

I'm loving Robo-Sam too, from a viewer's standpoint. The bloody grin and the trap on the ceiling definitely raised the hair on my nape, and Padawhack is rocking the chill. But my baby sibling? As the guy who shares my work and my life? Who reminds me daily of who he used to be and is so obviously not that now? That I miss like an amputated limb? That I am frantic to extricate from being caged with a maelstrom of torture? Yeah, I'd be irrational about wanting to both rescue the part that makes him Sam--which is nothing but a good instinct--and resoul the meatsuit beside me--which is a questionable one, at best.

Of course, if Crowley has had the djinn for months, and still hasn't gotten her to talk, it could mean he's not all that when it comes to the torture.

I took events in this episode to indicate that not only was Crowley not very good at obtaining information from someone by torture (as opposed to Alastair's proteges), he was also lying about his new position in Hell providing enhanced personal power. Meg seemed able to hurt him quite handily with the Vader technique, something I would imagine Lilith laughing off effortlessly.

That being the case, I have my doubts about Crowley being able to pull Samuel out of Heaven to resurrect him (and Samuel's own moral state makes me think it likelier that he was just an unquiet spirit that hadn't made it to any final reward yet), and wonder why he would risk all sorts of personal harm to reach into the cage and pull Sam out. Maybe he was trying for something else, like a scheme to steal some of Lucifer's power, and just ended up yanking the meatsuit he was wearing out instead like a crappy consolation prize.