I don't even...

For the first time the other day I read a fan defending incest. I don't know what fandom they were in, but I was startled. Usually what I've read is "It's FICTION, fool. And a kink. Leave me alone." But this person was all "Who are you to tell me I can't sleep with my siblings or parents???"

It was kinda weird and most people left them alone.

It was kinda weird and most people left them alone.

That's one taboo I don't think anyone is overturning anytime soon, I have to say.

I think Heinlein addressed incest in a few of his books. His approach seemed to be that incest reinforced genetic problems and was therefore wrong. One of his stories involved a brother and sister who were designed to be genetic problem-free, and he wrote them living happily ever after with one another. I read that when I was around 12, and even then I thought Heinlein might be overlooking a concern or two.

Gay incest avoids the genetic concerns neatly enough (unless you throw in mpreg). My problem's always been more with the probable power imbalances and emotional health issues. I could see an argument that SPN's not overflowing with emotional health, especially for the leads, and I could see an argument for incest stories growing out of that, although they wouldn't be my first choice for reading. But Sam/Dean curtainfic? No. All squick issues aside, I just can't buy it.

I think it's interesting the way most fic writers address Wincest, too (talking only about Sam/Dean here, because I can't go anywhere else). In probably 85% of stories, Sam is painted as the one who pushes to make their relationship sexual, and at a young age, which sort of neatly (is that possible?) takes away the problem of power, both in making him younger, and therefore presumably less powerful in the relationship, and not yet larger/stronger physically than Dean, too.

Why does Sam, who wants to be so normal, push for a sexual relationship with a family member? I don't quite get that characterisation?

I mean, we know the normal ship has sailed, but everything I think about his teen years I'd guess he would be against anything like that.

Later, when he's given up on normal--well, I still think it's OOC, and hella squicky--it seems less wild.

That's the stumbling block, ita, in terms of characterization. And most people don't really explore it, except to make Dean his sun, moon, and stars, make him more gay than straight, and sort of claim Dean as the one true thing he *has*.

An aside from the present convo: I watched the Ralph Macchio movie Crossroad (don't judge me. It was there, okay?), and it wasn't even as good as I remembered it. However, I was amused to note there was a bar called Lloyd's in the movie. I can guess Kripke used it as another pop culture tribute.

I'm of two minds about Sam ever truly realising Dean is everything to him, before he leaves for Stanford. Subconsciously I think he relies on him, but something as active as making a move? I mean, assuming the gay and the stuff? Just do not get.

Is the premise that Dean's guilted into acting on feelings he may or may not have realised he had? So as to not make the whole statutory rape thing add on top of the incest stuff? I mean, I'm assuming Sam's at least 14, making Dean 18.

It's not just a squick for me--I plain don't get it. River/Simon? That I can see from canon. Won't read. Can see. Sam/Dean? Totally cannot see. Their huge entanglement which I adore is incredibly and delightfully messed up, but doesn't go there.

I'm of two minds about Sam ever truly realising Dean is everything to him, before he leaves for Stanford.

That's it. I don't really think he gets that until much closer to the present time of the story.

Don't get me wrong -- I've read and written Wincest, but when I truly stand back and look at canon, I don't ever see them going there.

River/Simon, even though I can see it, too, I can't think about because once it's male/female and there's a chance of pregnancy, I really feel the squick. Plus, she's not exactly of sound mind, so.

It's funny--I've read more than once complaints that D/C is OOC. Compared to what? The other slash pairings in the fandom? Seriously? Outside of, what, Bobby/Crowley and Sam/Brady (which I will never let go of, ever), we're all making shit up.

Obviously I'm hugely biased, but we're all on crack.