I think it would be hard to try to read around it, though, especially if it's a big squick, like it is for ita.

Yeah. I understand what you're saying, but I also think the emotion and physicality is easily accepted, but for the explicit sexy bits. Though this may speak more to my own ability to accept wincest in the hands of a good writer.

Oops ita, I just re-read what you're asking for and this isn't it. Consider not reading as I describe the wincesty bits. I clearly have reading comprehension issues.

Not Amy but, there are blow jobs and talk of ongoing intimacy in vague terms. They are very close physically throughout the story but in ways that could be regarded as not wincesty at all. I believe a lot of the intimacy, sans blow jobs, was born of their situation. There's also cuddling in the cold on a porch swing and sharing of a bed (no actual sex in bed). There is also, at one point, a brief discussion about sexual feelings (before anything happens).

ETA: Gah! Sorry, brief editing errors resulted in lack of spoiler font. Fixed.

Having read the whitefont, yeah, not my story. But if you can give me directions around the John/Mary one, Amy, I will try that.

White font question on Dead Language,

is it really Wincest when he isn't Sam, even to Dean?

I'm fine with Wincest but wonder how those who aren't saw it in this story.

Sorry ita, if I squicked you out. I contemplated deleting the entry but I was in panic fix-it mode instead.

eta: lcat that is probably what Amy meant when she said it wasn't objectionable from one perspective.

Fixed a spoiler tag upthread, btw.

i'm way behind in this thread, but did we know about this? most especially...did Plei know about this? Jensen AND NPH?

Ohyeah. Crud. Need to beta Trip's essay on it.

I went to add Red Hood it to the Netlfix queue and found D already has it reserved.

ita, what I meant in Dean Language is that Sam does not remember he's Sam. He behaves as Sam would, in that whatever makes up a core personality is still there, so he's still stubborn and curious and strong, but he doesn't remember being Dean's brother. So it's not incest for him.

On the other hand, which is where lcat confuses me, Dean tries to deny that this semi-comatose -- in the beginning -- being is Sam, but it looks like Sam, when he starts to speak again, he speaks like Sam, etc., so to him it's always wrong because to him this *is* Sam, even if he doesn't remember being brothers.

That just makes me go: Oh, Dean! I can imagine that would be entirely gutting, and not for me. Which makes me think about an incest article I read on Gawker today, and genetic sexual attraction. But still not a thing for me in my fic.

Ooh, I'll read that, thanks.

Also, you have email about the other, since I didn't want to go into detail here.

And Dead Language has a surprisingly satisfying ending. I didn't feel at all cheated, in other words -- everything that happened felt not only earned but natural. I think what happened to Sam with Lucifer, if he did survive it, would cause enormous trauma, so it sort of struck me as something I wondered why I'd never seen before.