Well, what he seems to be advocating is the woman agreeing to disregard her own choice. Which, once you combine "advocate," "agree," and "disregard," seems like a weird area, consent-wise.
Willow: Happy hunting. Buffy: Wish me monsters.
'Beneath You'
Natter 62: The 62nd Natter
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Hil R. - Dec 31, 2008 10:02:30 am PST #8829 of 10002
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l
erikaj - Dec 31, 2008 10:02:51 am PST #8830 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!
Ok, even if Mr. Prager himself is not a SuperSekrit Rapist, I'm not so sure that this wasn't incredibly irresponsible for him to write. Cause some fanboy could "Take what was his," You know what I mean?
tommyrot - Dec 31, 2008 10:09:28 am PST #8831 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
Calli - Dec 31, 2008 10:20:14 am PST #8832 of 10002
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs
Maybe one should chase the steak with a little more beer or wine at dinner. Just in case.
Strega - Dec 31, 2008 10:22:39 am PST #8833 of 10002
I said *dubious* consent. I didn't call it rape. Let's get that very clear.
Yes, but you followed that with
Physical force is not the only means by which men rape women.
Which read to me as if some equivalence was being drawn.
I'm not ignorant of other ways in which people can be abused or exploited in a relationship. I just can't put "whining until you get your way" in that category.
I respect that other people think it's fine to nag and cajole and wheedle a partner into sex.
...I see.
tommyrot - Dec 31, 2008 10:23:37 am PST #8834 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
Maybe one should chase the steak with a little more beer or wine at dinner. Just in case.
Yeah. Plus chocolate, as that's good for you too. What was the other thing? Better eat everything, just to be safe.
Jessica - Dec 31, 2008 10:33:06 am PST #8835 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
I can't agree that trying to influence someone's choice, even in annoying ways, is the same as removing their ability to choose.
But Prager isn't in favor of women having a choice in the matter at all - in his universe, sex on demand forever is something a man buys with a wedding ring. Saying "I do" is the last consent she ever gets to give.
erikaj - Dec 31, 2008 10:43:49 am PST #8836 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!
Did I mention "Yuck," yet? Because if I haven't, I want to. A lot. I have heard there are women that withhold to get men to buy/ do things too. Which I also think is yuck.
Connie Neil - Dec 31, 2008 10:44:25 am PST #8837 of 10002
brillig
in his universe, sex on demand forever is something a man buys with a wedding ring
He did say a No should be respected, but he also insinuated that the acquiescence to the No would be accompanied by a mega-pout and foot scuffing. IE, whiny three-year-old wanting a cookie. IE2, insulting to properly evolved men.
Scrappy - Dec 31, 2008 10:46:29 am PST #8838 of 10002
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
Yeah, my response wasn't about Prager, who is clearly a misguided, misogynistic asshole. I was generalizing about Teppy'd assertions about coercion, because it's an interesting topic.