I can't agree that trying to influence someone's choice, even in annoying ways, is the same as removing their ability to choose.
I said *dubious* consent. I didn't call it rape. I didn't call it removing someone's ability to choose. Let's get that very clear.
There are a lot of gray areas when it comes to sex and power. When you say "yes" not because you want to be intimate with someone else, but because "no" is disregarded, I, personally, consider that dubious consent.
A "no" can be disregarded in ways other than physical violence. Sometimes your only choice is to give him what he wants so he'll leave you alone.
And a choice that some women might be comfortable making -- okay, I'll have sex with him, then I can get some sleep -- might make other women deeply uncomfortable.
My opinion. Everyone is entitled to theirs, and I respect that other people think it's fine to nag and cajole and wheedle a partner into sex. I don't. My. Opinion.
Well, what he seems to be advocating is the woman agreeing to disregard her own choice. Which, once you combine "advocate," "agree," and "disregard," seems like a weird area, consent-wise.
Ok, even if Mr. Prager himself is not a SuperSekrit Rapist, I'm not so sure that this wasn't incredibly irresponsible for him to write.
Cause some fanboy could "Take what was his,"
You know what I mean?
Maybe one should chase the steak with a little more beer or wine at dinner. Just in case.
I said *dubious* consent. I didn't call it rape. Let's get that very clear.
Yes, but you followed that with
Physical force is not the only means by which men rape women.
Which read to me as if some equivalence was being drawn.
I'm not ignorant of other ways in which people can be abused or exploited in a relationship. I just can't put "whining until you get your way" in that category.
I respect that other people think it's fine to nag and cajole and wheedle a partner into sex.
...I see.
Maybe one should chase the steak with a little more beer or wine at dinner. Just in case.
Yeah. Plus chocolate, as that's good for you too. What was the other thing? Better eat everything, just to be safe.
I can't agree that trying to influence someone's choice, even in annoying ways, is the same as removing their ability to choose.
But Prager isn't in favor of women having a choice in the matter at all - in his universe, sex on demand forever is something a man buys with a wedding ring. Saying "I do" is the last consent she ever gets to give.
Did I mention "Yuck," yet? Because if I haven't, I want to.
A lot.
I have heard there are women that withhold to get men to buy/ do things too. Which I also think is yuck.
in his universe, sex on demand forever is something a man buys with a wedding ring
He did say a No should be respected, but he also insinuated that the acquiescence to the No would be accompanied by a mega-pout and foot scuffing. IE, whiny three-year-old wanting a cookie. IE2, insulting to properly evolved men.
