But if you deprive them of oxygen, they get a good high before death.

I read a post in a BDSM discussion by a Dr. who was also into BDSM - he said that there's absolutely no way to practice "breath control" on another person without a risk of death. He said that even a short period of restricting someone's breath would cause a risk of heart-attack or... something else bad.

His argument sounded reasonable to me, but I haven't read any more on the subject. I was under the impression that people into "breath control" are (eta: in recent years) less popular in the BDSM community because of this issue.

But I wanna be corrected if I'm wrong, 'kay?

(If all y'all are SO OVER me posting whenever there's a BDSM question, please say so. I can never decide if there's a betting pool on how long it takes me to post OR if there's an LJ filter labeled "Stephshutthefuckupaboutkink.")

Pretty much every "official" discussion I've read on breath play says the same thing: there is no safe way to do breath play, because cutting off oxygen to the brain kills brain cells and *can* lead to brain damage/death. ("Can" doesn't mean "always will.")

I know people who are really, really into it, and I've seen them do it. Carotid artery pressure is really popular, because the choke-ee still breathes while it's happening, but their brain is slowly being deprived of oxygen until they pass out (is that technically "breath play" if you're breathing? maybe it should be called "oxygen play") and it's -- for me -- exceedingly disturbing to watch, because the person being choked gets all spasmy/shaky/etc. (actually, what it looks like, frankly, is a seizure) both when they're passing out and when they're regaining consciousness. (NOT an orgasm, at least according to them, and I don't know why they'd lie.)

I've even been to a couple of demos/presentations on breath play, and the first thing they say is "There's no safe way to do breath play. That said, here are some ways to do it that probably won't cause permanent damage."

Definitely NOT my bag, baby.

On the bit about even a short period of restricting someone's breath causing a risk of brain damage/death -- I guess it depends on the time period we're talking about. Because, for instance, I don't think that holding one's breath to swim underwater or to get rid of hiccups is going to actually kill you or turn your brain to Cheese Whiz. And if that's okay, it seems like that interval of breath restriction would also be okay in a BDSM situation.

But I can't say that for sure, and hey, maybe holding your breath to swim underwater is gonna kill you. (I doubt it, though.)

(I'm only up this late because I had nightmares -- one was about being choked, actually -- and had to get out of bed in the hopes that waking up fully and doing something would re-set my subconscious. I hope that being awake and freaked out was productive.)

t edited Friday morning to correct a 3 a.m. double negative

I had nightmares -- one was about being choked

what a lovely topic of conversation to run into when trying to decompress from that one. Want to hear about the corn on my toe?

If all y'all are SO OVER me posting whenever there's a BDSM question, please say so.

I'm pretty sure we as a group always like to get information from people who know things.

On the bit about even a short period of restricting someone's breath causing a risk of brain damage/death -- I guess it depends on the time period we're talking about. Because, for instance, I don't think that holding one's breath to swim underwater or to get rid of hiccups is going to actually kill you or turn your brain to Cheese Whiz. And if that's okay, it seems like that interval of breath restriction would also be okay in a BDSM situation.

But holding your own breath, you always stop before there would be a problem -- another person wouldn't know where that point is.

ION, yay Friday! But why do I keep waking up at 6? It is unnecessary!

Burrell, on the news this morning is a guy in Alabama who burned down his house yesterday trying to get rid of bees, so I think we can all say you made the right call on the shop vac.

If all y'all are SO OVER me posting whenever there's a BDSM question

We are not.

But holding your own breath, you always stop before there would be a problem -- another person wouldn't know where that point is.

Unless you have it set up so that the choke-ee is able to tap/signal/something when they need to breathe. Given my allergies and history of asthma, not being able to breathe makes me panic and flip out like an animal (which, frankly, seems like the sensible reaction to not being able to breathe).

Interestingly -- do all y'all remember how Spike chokes Dru until she passes out in "Becoming 2"? And one of the writers -- maybe Marti? -- said that was a big mistake on her part, b/c of the whole thing where vamps don't actually need to breathe?

Well, the way Spike was choking her -- these are the things I pick up at BDSM conventions -- wasn't a method that necessarily blocks the windpipe; but it does block the carotid artery, and lack of oxygenated blood flow to the brain makes you pass out. And vamps *do* need blood, right? Including to the brain? So in that light, it wasn't a canonical mistake.

Although I'm 99% sure Marti -- or whoever the writer was -- didn't intend for the scene to be read as cutting off *blood flow* but rather cutting off *air,* which is a vamp faux pas.

And yes, now that I've gotten The Boy to watch BTVS, we've had a lengthy, geeky discussion on that specific scene, AND then he even brought it up at a demo on breath play, which made everyone else in the room give us the "Oh my god, YOU FREAKS" look, which is hard to do among a crowd of people who like to get their freak on.

Well, the way Spike was choking her -- these are the things I pick up at BDSM conventions -- wasn't a method that necessarily blocks the windpipe; but it does block the carotid artery, and lack of oxygenated blood flow to the brain makes you pass out. And vamps *do* need blood, right? Including to the brain? So in that light, it wasn't a canonical mistake.

Possibly, although they don't have a heartbeat, so I'm unclear how the blood is reaching the brain. Apparently the guys at least can direct their blood flow otherwise, though, so I guess there's something going on. (Or maybe they just all know how to cast Raise Dead.)

So Steph, what you're saying is that in the hierarchy of who looks down on who (remember the chart?) BDSM > Buffy fans? :-)

(And where do the toy boat fetishists fit in?)

I know that small children can breath-hold until they pass out if they want to, so "doing it yourself" is not always key to safety!

I know that small children can breath-hold until they pass out if they want to, so "doing it yourself" is not always key to safety!

Yikes!

I got to work all early, and only then remembered that my early-bird boss and early-bird big boss are out at a thing. I should have gone to the drugstore!