One of my brothers was totally a dick to girls in high school, and a huge pothead and got several DUIs--on the other hand, he was impeccable in academic terms. I don't think they could have done anything for behavior he engaged in off school property.

He grew up to be a lovely man, I am happy to say.

And as important as I find things like character and ethics, I also think that some people learn why it's not okay to do certain things by doing them. And I think that's a valid method of learning. I know I've learned a few lessons that way.

Long is the way, and hard, that leads up out of darkness, into light.

He grew up to be a lovely man, I am happy to say.

This gives me hope for the faux-son.

The high school guy's 'infractions' were mostly academic. His not caring about anybody else's feelings and being a jerk to girls was by no means unique to him...but wholesale plagiarism, intimidating other kids into doing his work and fostering racial unrest using school property were certainly within their purvue, if not their interests.

Brief background...the thing that effected me directly was an article he slipped into the newspaper I edited after deadline that included a mind-boggling slur against the dominant 'minority' in the school. My name was at the top of the masthead, his name was not on the article. When questioned about it he said I must have written it...the girl gang with knives and chains came after me.

Thank god one of the gang members went to my bus stop since we were very young. I threw myself on her mercy and got away with minor injuries. Were it NOT for that connection, things would have turned out very badly.

I just bid on ebay on an $125 book for one of my classes. Current bid is $5.99. Here's to hoping it doesn't go much higher!

in which students approach ethical dilemmas more as PR challenges than anything else: ethics as spin.

Ah, in this day and age when one president "did not have sex with that woman" and

McClellan saying that while the Bush has been manipulative and deliberately deceptive, he hasn't lied (because presumably the last would be unethical and the former two somehow aren't).

is it any wonder today's young person sees no difficulty in doing the same thing? It's sad, because doing the right thing should be a reward in and of itself. I have much more respect for someone who says "I fucked up," than says "it really wasn't my fault because the cat ate my shoes and I couldn't walk to the store to buy paper and so I wrote the essay on my hand but I forgot it was there and took a shower." Tell me you forgot, I'll give you two extra days, but I'll mark you down a grade. You can't get an A, but you don't get an F for not turning it in or for lying to me.

Jilli, I just saw the cutest black and white striped blazer at Tablots. The sleeves were way too long on me, even in petite, but you might like it.

Ooooh, time to go scour the website.

I have nothing really to add to the discussion about ethics, but it's been wonderful reading.

There is a tremendous nobility in that. I wonder, have we ever had that in 'normal' society, or is it only born in military or 'noble' stratas of life? By noble, I mean both the actual 'high borns' of olde who were obliged by birth to look after others, and helping professions.

I don't think there are many that would define "soldier" as helping profession out of the box, but they are certainly volunteering to risk themselves to keep other people out of harm's way--is that the nobility you refer to? Because I couldn't call them all noble, just as I don't see any reason to assume that people not to the manor born nor in a care profession wouldn't put themselves in jeopardy for someone else. I mean, I don't see the causality.

I have much more respect for someone who says "I fucked up,"

Just last week, a fellow at the genius bar at the Apple store told a friend of mine that they would replace her hard drive for free simply because she told the truth about dropping the laptop. "You wouldn't believe the things people say."

I have much more respect for someone who says "I fucked up,"

nods

Yes. Don't give me reasons and justifications, just admit your mistakes and then show me by your actions that you will try to avoid similar ones in the future.

I mean, I don't see the causality.

Right. I don't see a causality, or even a prevalence of nobility in any particular strata. Poor sentence structure on my part seemed to imply a connection between military and helping professions. I meant that more as a grasping list vs a connection.

eta: I should say, my real question is, "Have humans ever actually been noble/moral as a whole?" Or, have heroic behaviors, moral etc. only been anomalous or outside the interest of 'normal' people?

I have much more respect for someone who says "I fucked up,"

I keep trying to tell my son this (with more age appropriate language). Unfortunately CJ has a big issue with not telling the truth, to the point where I am never quite sure if I should belive him or not, which kills me. I keep trying to tell him he will get in 10 times more trouble for telling a lie than whatever the original issue was. As a parent, I keep wondering what I did wrong that I have a kid I struggle to trust.