Angel: Will you just shut up for once?! Illyria: What? Angel: My God, the speechifying. Has it ever occurred to you that now might not be the best time for when-we-were-muck stories?

'Time Bomb'


The Minearverse 6: Fiery Thread of Death

[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath. Oh, and help us get Terriers dvds!


Gris - May 15, 2008 4:56:22 pm PDT #770 of 4535
Hey. New board.

there are enough mega-rich out there that it would seem logical for one to simply buyout one of the Actives for months if not years at a time.

I guess that depends on how expensive they are. They may be rare enough that only the mega-rich can afford to buy them for even short times.


CaBil - May 15, 2008 5:03:01 pm PDT #771 of 4535
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

Hrm...

A pilot is not wholly representative of a series, of course, but see how the first 'client' is portrayed, how he is dressed, the environments he is seen in and so on. I can buy that character is an Internet millionaire (hell, considering some of the character cues, I would even consider it likely) but a billionaire on the level of Gates? Probably not.

But this is off what, 90 seconds of footage that may not survive to broadcast? Who knows. (Well, some people know but that is not the point...)


Jessica - May 15, 2008 5:07:54 pm PDT #772 of 4535
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

It finally clicked this afternoon why the premise of the show was so familiar to me - the same thing happened to Molly in Neuromancer.

(The trailer is off YouTube but there are a bazillion copies out there already if you google "Dollhouse trailer." I found one here.)

Right now I can't tell what I think. The line that pings me the hardest is "It's cutting edge science in a house full of hot chicks!" It's one of those classic Jossy "I get a pass on this because I'm a feminist and it's therefore all ironic and shit, right?" lines that tends to make me wince.

And yeah, my take on the "they volunteered" aspect is that when you "volunteer" to have your memory wiped, it doesn't really matter what else it said on the contract at the time. You'd never know the difference. Is it not rape if you agreed to take the roofies?

I'm very happy to see Tahmoh Penikett playing one of the good guys. I don't think I could take evil Helo.


Steph L. - May 15, 2008 5:12:49 pm PDT #773 of 4535
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

If there is an inherent limit to what any one Active could do, that would mitigate some of the squick

Not really, because it's the mind-wipey that bothers me, regardless of what the Actives are hired to do, or for how long.


Gris - May 15, 2008 5:16:11 pm PDT #774 of 4535
Hey. New board.

"It's cutting edge science in a house full of hot chicks!"

That seemed like something Warren would say. Pretty much a villain. Bugs me big but in the "man do I hate that character now!" sorta way, which I think is pretty intended.


DavidS - May 15, 2008 5:20:05 pm PDT #775 of 4535
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Tim, one of my concerns is that the whole set-up doesn't just read as exploitation, but of rape.

I've seen the phrase "Joss's mind wiped whores" used more than a few times to describe the show.

And I think you can't use rape as a metaphor for anything.

I'm somewhat reminded of the Buffy episode "Seeing Red" and the writing staff being tone deaf to the fact that even though Spike was a well-established murderer and torturer, the sight of him sexually assaulting Buffy obliterated all of the metaphoric aspects of a vampire.

I think there's some cinematic (televisual?) distance from screen death - enough that you can employ it metaphorically - but there isn't that distance from sexual assault.

Also, there's some concern that this is a bit of a blind spot on Joss' feminist resume with bad pings about the Geek Trio mind-controling Warren's ex, and the Buffybot, and the sexbot in Serenity, and even Inara to some degree. He's gone back to that theme several times and it hasn't gotten more illuminating or deconstructed the stereotype. It pings kind of icky.

Still, I'm intrigued by the show and the talent and the writers assembled. I won't be watching it with my litmus paper pressed to the screen. I will almost certainly watch the whole run. But I am afraid of the premise alienating a lot of its potential audience.


Steph L. - May 15, 2008 5:30:08 pm PDT #776 of 4535
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Hec, it's pinging me more as sexual abuse of children, rather than rape of an adult. For instance, the Actives have been described -- by Joss -- as being "childlike" when they live in the dollhouse between assignments.

Which is not to say that child sexual abuse is "worse" than rape of an adult, but there's a degree of extra-abhorrence in people who abuse children, given the children's lack of understanding about sexual matters in general.


Tamara - May 15, 2008 5:36:50 pm PDT #777 of 4535
You know, we could experiment and cancel football.

Wow. I think I will have to stay away from b.org when this airs because my brain just goes nowhere near rape or child abuse even though I am pretty familiar with both.


DavidS - May 15, 2008 5:38:55 pm PDT #778 of 4535
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I can see that, Tep. To me it still comes under sexual assault and exploitation tied up into one undigestible ball. I mean, I think the problem is the same - that the subject can't be used as a metaphor for something else. That it's very bad form to use sexual abuse and/or rape as a metaphor for how Hollywood demeans actresses.

It's related to the notion that you don't use the Holocaust as a metaphor for something else. Certain things are too visceral to be processed in a symbolic fashion.


DavidS - May 15, 2008 5:40:04 pm PDT #779 of 4535
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Wow. I think I will have to stay away from b.org when this airs because my brain just goes nowhere near rape or child abuse even though I am pretty familiar with both.

I haven't prejudged it! I'm willing to meet the show on its own terms. I just think that it's a very large pitfall.