If there is an inherent limit to what any one Active could do, that would mitigate some of the squick

Not really, because it's the mind-wipey that bothers me, regardless of what the Actives are hired to do, or for how long.

"It's cutting edge science in a house full of hot chicks!"

That seemed like something Warren would say. Pretty much a villain. Bugs me big but in the "man do I hate that character now!" sorta way, which I think is pretty intended.

Tim, one of my concerns is that the whole set-up doesn't just read as exploitation, but of rape.

I've seen the phrase "Joss's mind wiped whores" used more than a few times to describe the show.

And I think you can't use rape as a metaphor for anything.

I'm somewhat reminded of the Buffy episode "Seeing Red" and the writing staff being tone deaf to the fact that even though Spike was a well-established murderer and torturer, the sight of him sexually assaulting Buffy obliterated all of the metaphoric aspects of a vampire.

I think there's some cinematic (televisual?) distance from screen death - enough that you can employ it metaphorically - but there isn't that distance from sexual assault.

Also, there's some concern that this is a bit of a blind spot on Joss' feminist resume with bad pings about the Geek Trio mind-controling Warren's ex, and the Buffybot, and the sexbot in Serenity, and even Inara to some degree. He's gone back to that theme several times and it hasn't gotten more illuminating or deconstructed the stereotype. It pings kind of icky.

Still, I'm intrigued by the show and the talent and the writers assembled. I won't be watching it with my litmus paper pressed to the screen. I will almost certainly watch the whole run. But I am afraid of the premise alienating a lot of its potential audience.

Hec, it's pinging me more as sexual abuse of children, rather than rape of an adult. For instance, the Actives have been described -- by Joss -- as being "childlike" when they live in the dollhouse between assignments.

Which is not to say that child sexual abuse is "worse" than rape of an adult, but there's a degree of extra-abhorrence in people who abuse children, given the children's lack of understanding about sexual matters in general.

Wow. I think I will have to stay away from b.org when this airs because my brain just goes nowhere near rape or child abuse even though I am pretty familiar with both.

I can see that, Tep. To me it still comes under sexual assault and exploitation tied up into one undigestible ball. I mean, I think the problem is the same - that the subject can't be used as a metaphor for something else. That it's very bad form to use sexual abuse and/or rape as a metaphor for how Hollywood demeans actresses.

It's related to the notion that you don't use the Holocaust as a metaphor for something else. Certain things are too visceral to be processed in a symbolic fashion.

Wow. I think I will have to stay away from b.org when this airs because my brain just goes nowhere near rape or child abuse even though I am pretty familiar with both.

I haven't prejudged it! I'm willing to meet the show on its own terms. I just think that it's a very large pitfall.

To me it still comes under sexual assault and exploitation tied up into one undigestible ball.

Right; like I said, neither one is really "worse" than the other. It's just that there's an extra-special abhorrence to child sexual abuse.

That it's very bad form to use sexual abuse and/or rape as a metaphor for how Hollywood demeans actresses.

Is that what it's supposed to be a metaphor for? I don't think I knew that.

Is that what it's supposed to be a metaphor for? I don't think I knew that.

Well, I'm extrapolating that from Joss describing his initial inspiration while talking to Eliza. That she saw her experience as an actress in Hollywood in the premise.

Tamara, b.org is filled with Whedon/Minear extreme early adopters. The show is probably not going to premiere for what, 8 months? People on b.org have already been thinking about the show's concept for at least four months while even most Whedon fans haven't even heard of the show yet. We don't know enough about the show to imagine how it will go right (which basically comes down to execution anyways) but we do know enough about it to imagine all the possible ways it can go wrong. And after four months, that's a lot of different ways...