Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after.

Giles ,'Conversations with Dead People'


The Minearverse 6: Fiery Thread of Death

[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath. Oh, and help us get Terriers dvds!


Allyson - Jul 09, 2009 12:21:45 pm PDT #2128 of 4535
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Being closer to the earth, my opinion on the subject is a bit different.


Typo Boy - Jul 09, 2009 12:33:00 pm PDT #2129 of 4535
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

But then I look at what he actually does. He invented Inara: "and look, there's a whore". Some of the most problematic treatment of Eliza in dollhouse were things Joss wrote. Yeah Tim evaded the issue somewhat in his ep. Given the setup he was given don't see what choice he had. But he dealt too. I'd say he was a LOT less offensive than Joss overall. Joss seems to me the guy who knows it is offensive to put women in refrigerators, but then decides it is OK for him to put women in refrigerators. (See first episode of Dollhouse.) Yeah politically Tim is a conservative Libertarian where Joss is a liberal. I think Buffy was a happy accident. Joss wanted to turn the cliche of the little blond gets killed at the beginning of the horror film around by having her be kickass, and did something great. But post Buffy, I think Tim has written better women than Joss. I made a guess at the reason, but I think the case that Tim has written women better than anything Joss has written post-Buffy is a strong one. And with something like Dollhouse where you have some really problematic issues, I suspect Tim will do a better job. And believe me my politics are much closer to Joss than Tim. But I think Tim writes women better. And I think he is actually better at treating them as people in his scripts and when he supervises and shapes the work of other writers.


Typo Boy - Jul 09, 2009 12:34:27 pm PDT #2130 of 4535
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I thought the blame for "closer to the earth" turned out to be Joss. Cause if that was bullshit I withdraw my comment. (Allyson, I take it you were replying to me not Kevin. X-posts can be confusing.)


Burrell - Jul 09, 2009 1:13:19 pm PDT #2131 of 4535
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

I love Allyson!!!1!


Kevin - Jul 09, 2009 3:09:54 pm PDT #2132 of 4535
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

I definitely think there's a been a trend towards Joss's work treating characters as objects rather than people. It's something I've noticed, and it took me out of the story of Dollhouse at times.

But at the end of the day, Dollhouse is never going to be a feminist show. I gather season two will move into Finding Power, but mostly I think it's a sick and twisted tale of life without repression, which probably benefits from a bit of Timothy.


Steph L. - Jul 09, 2009 3:11:00 pm PDT #2133 of 4535
I look more rad than Lutheranism

I dunno, I'm going to go with Joss on that one. I might not agree with him on everything, but he's actively donated towards and considers his output from a feminist POV.

Just because a person calls himself a feminist doesn't make him one.

IOW, Joss isn't the feminist he thinks he is.


Kevin - Jul 09, 2009 3:16:37 pm PDT #2134 of 4535
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

Either do I, but I think he did a bunch of work which effected viewpoints and spoke out about a bunch of issues and I think he deserves kudos for that.


erikaj - Jul 09, 2009 3:18:47 pm PDT #2135 of 4535
Always Anti-fascist!

Well, given that broadcast TV gave us the Swan a few years ago, I'm asking "Compared to what?'


Frankenbuddha - Jul 10, 2009 4:20:46 am PDT #2136 of 4535
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I think Joss' biggest problem is he's trying too hard in several different directions (e.g. making some kind of statement on society's treatment of women, pushing the envelope of what can be done in television drama, etc.), that, while not necessarily mutually exclusive, makes for incredibly tricky combination to pull of successfully. When it fails, that way lies anvils and recriminations.

Tim doesn't seem to overthink things too much. He's after the story.

BTW, that "e.g." was correct, right? I always have problems with that vs. "i.e.".


Tom Scola - Jul 10, 2009 4:22:49 am PDT #2137 of 4535
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

BTW, that "e.g." was correct, right? I always have problems with that vs. "i.e.".

"e.g." means "for example", and "i.e." means "as in", so you used "e.g." correctly.