I think the writers must have taken half an hour and made a flow chart of who had already met.
Fred: So you don't worry that it's possible for someone to send out a biological or electronic trigger that effectively overrides your own sense of ideals and values and replaces them with an alternative coercive agenda that reduces you to a mindless meat puppet? Shopkeeper: Wow. People used to think that I was paranoid.
'Time Bomb'
Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon
A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
DebetEsse - Jul 06, 2008 10:18:55 am PDT #3347 of 30001
Woe to the fucking wicked.
Juliebird - Jul 06, 2008 12:50:06 pm PDT #3348 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
Who 4x13
A brilliant post from TWoP: http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3174725&view=findpost&p=10518052 "I don't think I would have liked it if she had lived on as DoctorDonna, because as the name suggests, she would no longer be Donna. She'd be fierce as hell, and it would have been great to see what she was capable of, but it sort of suggests that she finally came into greatness only with another person implanted in her head. I hate the idea of people completing one another in romance novels, I would hate it if Donna Noble could only be great by virtue of having a Timelord (and not just any Timelord, having The Doctor) inside her head. Letting her die because she wanted to remain another person, this hybrid of her and The Doctor, would be wrong in this sense. And I do think that's why Donna didn't want to go back - because until she became the DoctorDonna and saved the world, she was unsure of her own self-worth. Like 10.5 realized, Donna, all this time, thought she was nothing special. Donna was willing to die because she thought her life finally had meaning, substance to it. She saved the world. She was finally special, and she was special because the Doctor was in her head (and not even in the usual way that people influence us - in a literal, his mind was in her head way!) making her, as Wilf said, "better". But Donna is special with or without the Doctor, and she needs to learn that. Sure wiping her memories effectively turned her into a different person than who she became, but at least the person The Doctor reverted her back to was 100% herself, with 100% power to become awesome again. Donna was brassy, loud and an inventive thinker even before she met the Doctor so she's obviously got something inside her own head that can achieve brilliance; if she does so in her new life sans Doctor, then the success is all hers, all her own doing. I like that."
§ ita § - Jul 06, 2008 1:05:39 pm PDT #3349 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Also, re 4x13, what of the show? I like Donna better than DoctorDonna, and a show with 1.5 Doctor and .5 companion just wouldn't be satisfying enough. Better this than a literal death (I'm still not over her dying in 12), and I did like meeting DoctorDonna.
I would like to have spent more time with an unsad Doctor 10.5, to see more of the Donna in him, now that I think about it.
Juliebird - Jul 06, 2008 1:18:12 pm PDT #3350 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
ita, ITA, I really enjoyed what we saw of Doctor Donna, but that was quite enough, and a whole episode of that would have been incredibly annoying, let alone a whole season.
I just really... I wish that Donna had agreed to the mind-wipe, and gone quietly, so that it didn't come off as the Doctor forcing something on her. I won't say "rape" or violation, but for a man who is willing to give a choice to universally genocidal Daleks, for a guy who wants to talk things through with murderous enemies, couldn't he have talked Donna down for another few more moments, and let her come to an acceptance. THAT would have been awesome. Shit, Donna could have said, "You were fantastic . . . And you know what? So was I!" Or not. The outcome was awful enough without having the act be so aggressive.
I also would have loved to see more of 10.5, not just because I found him quite fascinating and lacking in agency at the end, but also to see Rose find out she's stuck with Donna's personality. Weee!
I really want to watch season one now and compare 10.5's mannerisms to 9's. He's got the jumper, but I'm wondering if the stillness was a Chris Eccleston thing as well.
Polter-Cow - Jul 06, 2008 1:25:34 pm PDT #3351 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
Julie, that's a great post, and it makes a very good point. It's along the lines of some things I was thinking myself.
Jon B. - Jul 06, 2008 4:28:38 pm PDT #3352 of 30001
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!
DW 4x13: Anyone catch the reference to Eve Myles being in "The Unquiet Dead"?
Juliebird - Jul 06, 2008 4:29:33 pm PDT #3353 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
yup!
DebetEsse - Jul 06, 2008 4:36:52 pm PDT #3354 of 30001
Woe to the fucking wicked.
Jon, I figured that's as much explanation as we'll ever get, which is kinda disappointing, as I was hoping the connection would play out on Torchwood in the future. But, still, nice meta moment.
Torque - Jul 06, 2008 4:43:08 pm PDT #3355 of 30001
Bad Wolf
Jon,
I caught as much as I thought I could without going back and watching every episode to figure out what that was in reference to. I'm still not entirely sure.
DCJensen - Jul 06, 2008 5:20:52 pm PDT #3356 of 30001
All is well that ends in pizza.
DW 4x13: Anyone catch the reference to
I thought it was a natural enough moment the way it was. Both the Doctor and Rose, upon seeing her, at the same time together could only but go "woah!"
Torque, she played the servant at the funeral parlor who sacrificed herself to save Charles Dickens, Nine, and Rose in Season 1.