But back to my original point: if the showrunners can't change the premises or the cast, and just keep telling the same stories over and over--well, that is almost inevitably going to result in some degradation of quality. How can it not?

And I know enough about what was going on behind the scenes at Farscape to know that the battles with the network weren't going to get any better--they wanted more accessibility, less complicated serial storytelling, more "casual-viewer-friendly" episodes. And that was almost precisely what Farscape hadn't been since about midway through season 1. I suspect that if that battle had continued on, without cancellation, well. The outcome wouldn't have been pretty.

the average tv concept has, at best, 100 good episodes in it. After that, the writers have run out of things to say about the characters and the premise, and end up repeating themselves or reinventing the show

That sounds about right to me - 5 seasons seems to be that sweet spot where you either get canceled or go completely off the rails.

John Rogers has said the same thing, specifically about Leverage: that a show concept has only got so many episodes in it before it starts to go stale.

But the actors and creators can actually leave if they want--that's why some series end when they do. Because people are ready to move on. There are remarkably few indentured servants in Hollywood.

I'm not saying that anyone should keep liking the show once it's started to suck, or be happy it now sucks. Just, why wish it cancelled? You go from not watching a show on the air to not watching a show off the air--you're still not watching the show--what in hell do you care if it's on the air? Basically the people who were watching the show are bummed out now. That's what just happened. Great. Why can't you take responsibility for not watching it yourself? I can't see the whole thing as anything other than "well, if I can't have it, no one will!" sort of petty.

And the zero sum school of thought isn't handing out diplomas, since it's not usually that simple, so I don't factor it in much either.

What does "emotional investment has been hurt" mean? And if we're going to possibly harm a metaphor, why can't you close your account before the bank goes belly up?

So John has said that thing, about Leverage ending? Cool.

I don't think a given TV concept can't write more than 100 episodes into the very DNA, but I'm absolutely not clever enough to create the idea that gives birth to itself. Just that it should be plausible to satisfy those stipulations.

Though, for instance, you can minimise the impact of repeating yourself, right?

I can't see the whole thing as anything other than "well, if I can't have it, no one will!" sort of petty.

Well, yeah. People are petty. Especially when they feel (logically or not) that they were sold a chocolate ice cream but down at the bottom it's become black raspberry, and they hate black raspberry.

What does "emotional investment has been hurt" mean?

Eh, bad writing on my part. I mean the feeling that you've thrown bad money after good, that you're clinging to something that you dislike because of the emotional attachment you built up when you did like it, and the hope that this is just a temporary thing and soon it will return to what it was before and you'll like it again. Or like it more than you dislike it, anyway.

And if we're going to possibly harm a metaphor, why can't you close your account before the bank goes belly up?

Because you can't know. There are probably fans who can go from being really emotionally attached to a show to being casual about it, but they're not that common. The whole point of fannishness is that emotional connection, which is why it's so hard to let go when the pain begins to outweigh the pleasure. Especially if you don't know if it's just temporary, and soon it'll be something you like again. So instead of going from completely invested to casual, they go from completely invested to totally pissed off, because they hung in so long that the pain completely overwhelmed the pleasure.

I'm sort of struggling with this right now--last season's Fringe took a story about Olivia and turned it into a story about Peter and how much Olivia loved him, which was for me, definitely not the show I became attached to. And now I have to decide whether the new premise this season promises is going to be enough to bring me back, or do I walk away, as I planned to? Will it be better? Will the parts I dislike outweigh the parts I like? If I make a lot of noise about the parts I dislike, will that magically make the showrunners change the story? [Answer to that last: NO. But people keep trying, anyway.]

How do I get the pleasure of the show while protecting myself from being pissed off by the parts I don't like? ::shrugs::

But Consuela - you know that this upcoming season is it's last.

(Mmmmm, love chocolate ice cream AND black raspberry.)

But you do know, in that when you're not having fun, you're not having fun.

If you've reached the point where you want the show cancelled for everyone, why not just take a breath, step back, and just cancel it for yourself by deleting the season pass? Everyone seems to know when they want the show to end, but not when to stop watching it. Why is that?

And the thing is, if you're wrong about your decision to stop watching, unlike when you cancelled the show for everyone, you can take it back. Five years from now, you can add it to your Instant Watch queue on Netflix and catch up on a long weekend. And it won't be as good as when you were young and silly and in love with the show, but it was nice to see them again, and it didn't hurt so badly that they were kinda stupid, but at least you got to see for yourself how it ended, and now that one fanfic makes more sense, yeah?

If it is being petty, that you want it stopped for everyone because you've stopped enjoying it, isn't that too embarrassing to say out loud?

I think people who say those things are saying them as a way to indicate how extremely disappointed they are in the show. . . and of course, to illicit lots of comments.

If it is being petty, that you want it stopped for everyone because you've stopped enjoying it, isn't that too embarrassing to say out loud?

t cackles

How long have you been talking about media on the internet? There is nothing that is too embarrassing for someone, somewhere, to say out loud.

I'm not disagreeing with you in this argument, for the most part--I'm just pointing out that rational decision-making appears to play little part in the risk-reward evaluation of the truly committed fan.

Five years from now, you can add it to your Instant Watch queue on Netflix and catch up on a long weekend

Right, but that means they can't participate in the fandom now, while the conversation is going. And while that's certainly sometimes preferable, it also means missing out on the community aspects of the whole thing. Which are, for many people, as significant as the actual show in bringing meaning to the fannish experience.

Okay, I bitch about a lot of shows--I am not going to be hypocritical about that for one hot second. I watch a lot of stuff I don't actually like, because I'm a miserable daughter of a bitch. But...I don't like to sound like an idiot. I'm not saying I win that little battle, but at least I like to think I'm in the game.

The premise that I'm helpless at the mercy of my cable box which is forcing me to watch season 8 of Supernatural, and if the CW doesn't save me by cancelling it, little baby ducklings will die--how have we not ganged up as adults and not heaped derision upon the people who keep spewing that viewpoint? Why is it even indulged for a second? And, yeah, I know you just had it a few posts up, but that's how much I don't get it.

I do hunt down discussions of shows I don't like, and participate in them. But I don't pretend I don't have any choice in watching them, or imply that I need to be protected from them...the fuck? I do do my best not to deride the people who do make the choice to watch them because they enjoy them, but that's the bit that I think's hard (god, Twilight, seriously, sitting on my hands again...or at least trying to ask questions and not lob stink bombs...).

Over and over again, people who have garnered respect, in level-headed arenas, and boom! Out pops the "helpless maiden entrapt by Fox" thing and..it gets momentum and supporters, and all I can see is people volunteering to wear a dunce hat.