You want to meet the real me now?

Mal ,'War Stories'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


§ ita § - Mar 02, 2012 2:30:40 pm PST #19507 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Okay, Awake was okay. It had that air of a show that might succeed because the conceit's not explained at all, and has a pretty simple effect. No buttons, no switches, and probably on a couple other variations for sweeps.

No, it doesn't seem like he sleeps. Eyes close, eyes open. Fuck the show's cancellation, he's going to fritz the neurons in a year or so.


Juliebird - Mar 02, 2012 2:42:13 pm PST #19508 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

It seems to me that he sleeps, because he goes to bed in one reality and wakes up in the next, in the interim he sleeps.


§ ita § - Mar 02, 2012 3:38:44 pm PST #19509 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

He said he closed his eyes and then he opened his eyes. He didn't say or imply there was anything happening inbetween, so that's what I was going with.


Juliebird - Mar 02, 2012 3:46:08 pm PST #19510 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

I'm thinking that he closes his eyes, and if he doesn't dream, the next thing he knows is that he's waking up. And so the abbreviated explanation excluding his sleeping.

Which makes me wonder, what happens if he pulls an all-nighter? What if he gets called to a crime scene at four in the morning and doesn't get home until six, seven in the morning? Will he have already have woken up in the next reality, or will there be a shift at a specific time? Midnight? 6 am?


§ ita § - Mar 02, 2012 3:51:16 pm PST #19511 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm thinking that he closes his eyes, and if he doesn't dream, the next thing he knows is that he's waking up. And so the abbreviated explanation excluding his sleeping.

I do think, narratively, it's on them to explain that. If they have him both say "I close my eyes, I open my eyes" with no implication of anything happening inbetween and also show the same thing (I didn't notice any shots of him sleeping), then it's entirely our decision to insert sleep there. It's not strictly incorrect, because I don't think that they have explicitly said it's not happened, but they have done absolutely no hinting of their own.

It wouldn't be a retcon, basically, if they said next week that he never slept, from the bits I've caught so far.


Juliebird - Mar 02, 2012 4:01:01 pm PST #19512 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

I think this is an instance of proving that God doesn't exist by the merit that there is not concrete evidence that he does, and vice versa.

Until we know more, and all that.

My hold that he does in fact sleep is that showing a man sleeping is terribly dull, and that there have been no other signs of time slipping. The assumption being that between the time that he falls asleep, and the time that he wakes up, he slept a full night.

It'd be another thing if he falls asleep in one reality at 10 pm and he wakes up at 10:15 in the other reality. Then I'd start worrying about him fritzing out due to lack of sleep.


Frankenbuddha - Mar 02, 2012 4:04:34 pm PST #19513 of 30001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Also, for those who missed it on original airing or the Bravo rebroadcast, the pilot is scheduled on the channel formerly known as Sci-Fi - Monday or Tuesday night - I just put it in the rotation but I'm currently spacing on when or what time, so check your DVRs or listings. Sorry.


§ ita § - Mar 02, 2012 4:16:07 pm PST #19514 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Except the world has no responsibility to tell me god exists. The storytellers have a responsibility to tell me about his experience. So I will tend to assume he's not having it if they keep showing events in sequence and skipping showing and telling that.

Semantics.


Jessica - Mar 02, 2012 5:18:28 pm PST #19515 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

When I watched the pilot way back when, it seemed to me like he didn't ever sleep. There was no indication that he was alternating days in each reality, for example, or living days twice.

And, you know, there's the title of the show.


DebetEsse - Mar 02, 2012 5:29:09 pm PST #19516 of 30001
Woe to the fucking wicked.

I don't see how they can avoid the question of mechanics for very long, although I understand wanting to keep things vague for the pilot.

It is interesting that there are differences that cannot be readily attributed to the death of his wife vs. son, so they really are quite separate realities.